From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 14 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 171 In this issue: the_dojang: Re:A request for Mr Saporta -response to Mitar (long winded) ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:31:41 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re:A request for Mr Saporta -response to Mitar (long winded) In a message dated 3/14/00 9:28:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Since you have trained a few martial arts that I'm most interested in (TKD, HKD, Jiu Jitsu), I have to ask you to make some kind of comparison if possible>> Mitar Thanks for your interest in my experience.Im not the best person to ask as I am not as experienced or accomplished a martial artist as are many on this list. With medical school and postgrad training, martial arts has been a hobby I have loved but not something I've mastered. Others such as Master Whalen or Master Burese are in a better position than I to give you opinions on this. But at the risk of making a fool out of myself, I'll share a few of the opinions I've come to based on my experience with these different arts. First, there is no absolute answer to your question. It depends on the individual and what works better for him or her. Second, every martial art has its strengths and weaknesses, Taekwondo training has advantages and disadvantages in self defense compared to other arts, and vice versa. I do not believe that any one art is inherently superior to any other. I love all the arts I've trained in. My daughter is doing Kung fu which is a better art for her, given her strengths and interests. Regarding the self defense value of Taekwondo, I think you have to distinguish ITF form WTF. I have no doubt in the self defense value of the old style Taekwondo - the old style Korean Masters would have had no problem defending themselves in any situation. Their power is awesome. I do struggle with some doubts about WTF Taekwondo training in relation to self defense. Let me mention some positives first. It is a great sport. Also, the full contact fighting for tournaments is good preparation for a fight, you know what it is like to kick someone hard and be kicked hard. Some martial artists go into a fight never having made contact, while in our Taekwondo sparring class we really fight, full contact, though no punches to the head, on a regular basis. The feeling of contact wont be a big surprise. It seems to me that many Jujitsu and Hapkido techniques such as joint locks can only be practiced with a cooperative partner to avoid injury, so the full contact fighting in WTF may have a realism advantage. I also get a better aerobic work out in WTF TKD class than any other martial art. Jujitsu (it was not BJJ) was GREAT self defense training, but i sometimes didn't break a sweat in class and I started gaining weight. Also, I have no doubt that the top Taekwondo do fighters, such as Juan Moreno - who is one of my heroes can defend himself and knock out any potential thug with ease. But few people are that good or train that much, The question is whether WTF is practical for self defense for the common man or woman who trains two to four times a week for 1-2hrs. Juan Moreno trains nine hours a day. For a guy like me, and most people at my level, with the time I have to put in to train, with my age, etc., I don't think WTF TKD is the best for self defense. As I get older I cant rely as much on speed in kicking like the younger TKD fighters can. WTF TKD people keep their hands dangerously low, they tend to prefer to fight at a distance, where if a punch connects with you it will hurt much more than if you are in close. I think it is better to get in close. I think WTF TKD encourages certain habits of fighting that are good for an Olympic style match but not so good for street fighting. In my jujitsu training I had to break a lot of habits from Taekwondo that would have been fatal to me in a self defense situation. Just one example is chambering a block before blocking, such as the knife hand block we do in forms, which kept getting me punched in the face, (I realize you wouldn't do this in TKD sparring either, but we practice blocking unrealistically in TKD). A friend of mine believes that if you train to do well in WTF TKD tournaments then you will be in fine shape to defend yourself in a street situation. I disagree with this. I felt that my jujitsu training and now my Hapkido training are more practical for street defense. I felt I learned much more about fighting when I trained in jujitsu than when I did WTF TKD. For example, in all my years of Taekwondo training no one ever told me not to punch someone in the head with my fist. My jujitsu teacher who was also a cop told me my fist would swell like a balloon and the fight would be over, so to use open hand techniques. Jujitsu was down and dirty. But my jujitsu teacher was not a fan of BJJ. He did not believe in taking a fight to the ground -- you land on glass and gravel, the guy may have friends around the corner and you are getting tangled up on the ground. He said if you get on the ground, get up somehow, bite his ear whatever then get up. Hapkido is also practical like jujitsu, and I prefer it because it has a lot of the dynamic kicking and spinning like TKD which I enjoy. I have some questions about some of the more elaborate Hapkido maneuvers and joint locks working against someone who is strong and resisting unless they are being used by someone who is Very skilled. My TKD teacher is always challenging me to show him what I am learning in Hapkido to show me how it doesn't work. He feels if it takes more than one or two steps max its too elaborate and wont work, that only the simplest techniques work. Im not experienced enough in Hapkido to know. At this stage in my life though, given my strengths and weaknesses, I find Hapkido makes more sense for self defense. Im also figuring which martial art will be most practical as I get older, Im 43 now. I believe that TKD is more of a young persons art. But self defense isn't my main concern. I am not a professional soldier nor a police officer, Ive never been in a fight in my life. I look for an art that I enjoy and a group of good people I enjoy being with to train in addition to finding an art that is practical for me. I am also very lucky to have had great teachers like Master Steven Carrasco and Master Hal Whalen. Jose' ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.