From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #172 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 15 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 172 In this issue: the_dojang: Sorry for the short issue... Re: the_dojang: Re:A request for Mr Saporta -response to Mitar (long the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #170, Complaints re USTU the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 the_dojang: Re: Concerns with the USTU the_dojang: you fight how you train the_dojang: street fighting? the_dojang: my martial arts supply company the_dojang: Re: Fancy Smancy Kicks the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 the_dojang: Re: Testing without knowing Re: the_dojang: No Thought, No Mind the_dojang: Kihap the_dojang: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do the_dojang: Fw: Head Kicks the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #168 the_dojang: What is Tae Bo? the_dojang: Re to Morgan the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 the_dojang: Surprise Black Belt Re: the_dojang: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:38:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Sorry for the short issue... Sorry. The short issue was my bad. Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:00:13 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re:A request for Mr Saporta -response to Mitar (long > defending themselves in any situation. Their power is awesome. I do struggle > with some doubts about WTF Taekwondo training in relation to self defense. Generalizations are always very dangerous. eg. I know many many WTF schools that work very hard on self-defense training. I'd put them up against a young strong grappler any day. But YMMV. Remember, it isn't the style. The person is far more important than the style. Their ability to 'flip the switch' into survival mode is far more important than whether they have studied BJJ or TKD or TSD or muay Thai or Hapkido or Sumo or Tennis. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:39:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #170, Complaints re USTU In a message dated 3/14/00 11:34:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Jose, is this the Master Ahn in Texas, or is it in Massachsetts? Gary >> Massachusetts ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:45:28 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 Let's see... Juan trains 9 hours a day, probably sleeps 7 hours, spends 3 hours max on eating. That just leaves 5 hours in the day. Hmm... I guess he is the perfect example of someone who lives Taekwondo. I don't mean to pick on him. The Taekwondo athletes at Kyung Hee University and Yong In University are the same way. Mike ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:54:21 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Concerns with the USTU Personally, I'd rather go with the AAU. The guy seems to care more about the little people. Those who play Taekwondo for fun and are not planning to go to the Olympics. It just plain sucks when the American kid beats the Korean kid clearly, but the decision goes to the Korean. (Remember folks, I'm Korean, but to me, it's more important to be fair.) I left Taekwondo because I have no interest in sports and in medals. Therefore, I have no vested interests in cleaning up the USTU. (This problem plagues many WTF recognized NGB's as Koreans plainly think that non-Koreans can never be as good as Koreans at Taekwondo. I disagree.) The only thing that may remotely get my involvement is the fact that Taekwondo is Korean and if it is misrepresented morally, then it seriously stains the image of my motherland. If there is one thing all Koreans agree on, it's that we are all Korean and we have a responsibility of protecting and supporting our country. This has been passed down from the teachings of Won-Kwang to An Chang-ho to Kim Dae-jung. FYI: martial art masters are not venerated in Korean society. Traditionally, they were thugs or exhibitionists, without much character. Americans show more respect to masters than ordinary Koreans. Like others have said, Korea emphasizes scholars over fighters. They prefer PhD's over Kwanjangnim's.] Sincerely, Michael Choi ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:48:52 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: you fight how you train > From: JSaportajr@aol.com > problem is that it seems to me that you are most likely to react on the > street as you train repeatedly in the dojang. Yes that is true. Thus, you should practice what you would do on the street. You know that. I know that. ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:13:26 MST Subject: the_dojang: street fighting? Hi, I was just wondering, is Street Fighting a martial art and does anyone know of any good street fighting sites? thanks, - --kadin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:05:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: my martial arts supply company ok everyone! here it is, i'm proud to say... this is the grand opening announcement for Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply. this is my new business, providing quality, low priced martial arts products! as far as i can tell, i've got the best prices on adidas gear! including grandmaster uniforms and the NEW T-2000 shoes. if youre getting it cheaper somewhere else, lemme know, i can probably match their prices for you. i also have a special price list for school owners and masters. Please check it out. if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. additionally, if theres something youd like to order, but you dont see it on the pages yet, just lemme know... i can probably get it for you! a special thanks to jeremy, ray, cynthia and hoosain for allowing me to post on their lists. i hope to make this a career along with instructing. my dreams are becoming reality and i want to thank you all for your support! melinda kidder owner, Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: IntlKido@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:12:36 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Fancy Smancy Kicks << Ken wrote, in part: > As someone previously noted, in a real world situation what do you > think would be better: > a. One of those fancy smancy high kicks, or: > b. A low line level kick to X's knee, shin, or thigh ? > If you click on b above, then why practice the aero kicks ? Again, no slam > on other styles or training. Just thinking over practical stuff. >> That depends totally on the situation. You have to understand when and why to use high kicks before you can apply them properly. I can demonstrate many ways in which they can be effectively applied. On real simple example... goof takes a swing at you, you block or dodge it and counter with a hand technique to the face which disorients him followed by a finish with a kick to the head. On the street, am I going to make an initial kicking attack to the head of someone I'm squared-off with... probably not. People always ask me... "how are you going to kick someone in the head while standing in a crowded bar?" My answer is that I dont go into bars, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't choose that type of technique -- I'd use something else. It all comes down to the fact that if you dont know HOW and WHEN to use high kicks, you can end up in a world of hurt ---- just the same as you can if you dont know how to use mid or low level kicks. Mike Burnett Shin Koo Hapkido http://members.aol.com/intlkido/hapkido.html ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:20:25 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 Dear Jose, Good interesting post. Nice and well thought out. > He said if you get on the ground, get up somehow, > bite his ear whatever then get up. One of my previous Hapkido tutors told me he used to teach such a technique. But now, because of AIDS, he doesn't teach this one. Instead he recommends shouting from close range - say a couple of centimetres- into an ear. It works.... Andrew ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:25:37 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Testing without knowing > > << Has anyone ever heard of an instructor testing a student for Black Belt > over > the course of a year or more without the student really knowing? All the > while recording grades for specific forms, terminology, techniques, etc. > Then presenting the surprised student with their black belt at a > regularly > scheduled class. Not for black belts, but we did it for coloured belts during the last summer camp. We always make an extra grading for the best participants at the end. I got a list of all the kids who were interested in testing (using the excuse I have to plan the test and the day schedule early). Then, during the two weeks we spent at the camp, we were giving points to all of the soon-to-be testees, but they didn`t know that. At the very last day, the testing looked like this: Tom - 30 seconds shadow sparring... done, thanks! Anna - one-step number two and three... done, thanks! The kids didn`t really know what it was all about, and I can remember the very special sound of OOUUUUUCH! when I finally explained it to them at the end. Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: WEE Shin Hoe Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:01:11 +0800 Subject: Re: the_dojang: No Thought, No Mind > From: Ray Terry > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:31:18 PST > Subject: Re: the_dojang: No Thought, No Mind > > > and Martial Arts in term of "mu shim". IMHO I think the more appropriate > > word will be "Kong" (As in Kong Soo Do) or the "Void". It is the > > ?? I thought that the Kong in Kong Soo Do was Empty, as in Empty Hand > Way (ie. Karate-do). Kara = Kong. Or does Karate-do = Void Hand Way? :) > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Sorry, Ray. I was trying to establish the right Chinese character so that Michael might understand what I was trying to explained. As you know, the Chinese, Korean and Japanese do share Chinese characters that have simillar meaning but pronounced in different way. And yes, it is the same character that also means Empty as in Karate-do. Most of the Chinese characters have mutiple meanings. Depending on how it is used, this same "Kong" character can refer to emptiness, void, air, space etc. - -- Regards, S. H. Wee Email : shinhoe@pc.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: Nick McKenna Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:42:31 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Kihap Dear All I thought I'd relate a kihap story to you from my martial art (Tang Soo Do) class. During free-sparring (no contact) one day, it was my turn to spar against an 8th gup. A couple of seconds into the bout I did a jump kick and let out the most focussed (not necessarily the loudest) kihap I had ever done. The lower grade stood rigid still staring at me. This chap has a lot of talent and is a big guy, but he was still shocked by my kihap. Translated into a street situation where your opponent has no training, I believe that a kihap could be the deciding factor in a conflict. If he hesitates, you strike and win. Best Wishes to all, Nick McKenna. ------------------------------ From: Nick McKenna Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:07:13 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do Dear Morgan And All The relationship between Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan and Soo Bahk Do is complex. They are essentially the same style of martial art, but with different ruling organisations. Soo Bahk Do is the ancient martial art of Korea. Tang Soo Do is based on Soo Bahk Do, Kung Fu and Okinawan karate (plus others). There is a modern Soo Bahk Do organisation that exists as an off shoot of Tang Soo Do. Moo Duk Kwan is usually a style of Tang Soo Do, but there is an organisation (again an offshoot of Tang Soo Do) that is called Moo Duk Kwan (still with me?). My style of martial art is Johnson's Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. We are affiliated with the AMA in the UK rather than a parent Tang Soo Do organisation. One source of the confusion is that the same names are used for different arts or have fallen out of use for a time. When you ask someone about Soo Bahk Do, they may think you mean the ancient art of Korea or they may think of the modern school of martial art. Check out this site: http://www.martialartsresource.com/korean/korframe.htm for further info on Soo Bahk Do (it is the Korean Martial Arts FAQ). Surf the web for further information. Some of it will be contradictory and incorrect. I'm trying to find out more myself (I am new to Korean martial arts myself), but it can be difficult to find the truth at times! Tang Soo! Nick McKenna. 5th Gup, Tang Soo Do ------------------------------ From: "hkdhal" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:36:42 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Fw: Head Kicks Subject: Head Kicks > This used to be a major Topic for years. Will a head kick Work? Masters > and Instructors alike would argue the point.There are a lot of variables > that have to be considered before someone attempts a head Kick,What type of > surface are you standing on?How is your Flexibility?What are the intentions > of the attacker?Do you know what you are capable of doing with your feet.In > my class we constantly practice head kicks,But we also spend a lot of time > using the lower kicks of Hapkido,And endless spinning kicks. It conditions > the body when throwing high kicks both aerobically helping your > endurance,Also teaching both speed and balance,If I can pop you in the Head > at will with a head kick I own you if I decide to kick you lower. > Another thing practice the kicks endlessly and they will not fail you.The > more you sweat in the Dojang or Dojo the less you will bleed on the > street.It is a must to work the basic kick and change the angles of attack,, > Retreat kicking, Attack kicking ,fake an injury to the opposite leg to throw > off your attacker then attack him.Use the kicks in multiple > combinations,Corner yourself between two cars and kick.Just remember you > must use them or loose them.... > Hal > > _________________________________________________________ > Enlighten your in-box. http://www.topica.com/t/15 > ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:10:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #168 Morgan, Tang Soo!! I'll weigh in initially on the origins of TSD MDK. Back in 1945 Grandmaster Hwang Kee founded Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. The Moo Duk Kwan is the organization - it translates to "School of Martial Virtue". Tang Soo Do, "Way of the China Hand", is the style. In the '50's GM Hwang Kee changed the name of the style to Soo Bahk Do in order to differentiate it from Tae Soo Do, the precursor for TKD. In the U.S., the name change occurred only in the last 4 years, primarily due to the many off-shoots using the name Tang Soo Do and the confusion it generates. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan is a trademarked name, still headed up to day by GM Hwang Kee world-wide, and in the U.S. by his son Master H.C. Hwang. That's a very short summary of the history. Recommend you contact the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation at 1-888-SOO-BAHK if you wish to get a copy of GM Hwang Kee's "History of the Moo Duk Kwan". In the U.S. today there are about 5 major Tang Soo Do organizations all headed up by former students of GM Hwang Kee, either directly or downstream and we can talk that issue off-line if you wish. It's a rich and interesting history. The most prominent American practitioner of TSD is Chuck Norris who achieved his 4th Dan prior to breaking away. Other students include Pat Johnson, GM J.C. Shin, GM C.S. Kim, and GM Jae Joon Kim, all of whom head up organizations today. Soo Bahk!! Cliff Vaught - ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:04:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #165 Hello! A quick intoduction: I'm a 36-year-young female who started studying Tang Soo Do last November. I've had previous martial arts training in Wing Chun, Karate, and Tae Kuk Mu Sul. I'm new to this list. In trying to learn some of the background of my new art, I've gotten confused about something. I understand that Tang Soo Do is the style I practice. What, exactly is Moo Duk Kwan, and how is it related to TSD? At one point I thought the names were interchangeable, then I thought TSD was a part of MDK, as Wing Chun is a part of Wushu. Now I'm thinking it must be another art. Everyone in my school seems to have a different answer! Can you help? ------------------------------ From: "Mitar" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:13:59 +0100 cet Subject: the_dojang: What is Tae Bo? Mr Saporta, I want to thank you very much for putting a great effort into the analysis you've made. That is the right kind of comparison I wanted to see. Very good job. Thanks again. I have only one question for you. What do you mean when you say: "Chambering a block before blocking" ? I also have a question for all of you people. In my TKD school, there is a girl that teaches TAE BO (they also call it Aerobic - Self Defense), and many girls practice it. Although Tae Bo is a part of our TKD school, I'm wondering if it is an original Korean art, or it is some kind of mixture? In other words, has anyone of you ever heard for Tae Bo? Mitar P. S. Regards for Michael Choi. Your essays are one of the most interesting things on The_Dojang (especially those about "mu shim" expression). Keep up the good work. ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:46:01 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re to Morgan To Morgan: Aikido is the Japanese version of Hapkido. Remember that Korea was under Japanese control for 40 years. Many of the techniques will be similar as is the terminology. As far as high kicks and jumping kicks are concerned, I have used jumoing kicks against taller opponents, especially from non Korean styles, in tournaments and class sparring. They work fine in some cases, especially against Japanese and Okinowan styles that are not use to such types of kicks. On the street, I would not be using them. I wnat to drop the opponent as fast as possible. The knees always come to mind first. As the Japanese and Okinowan martial artists have said (paraphased) "There is never a reason to kick above the waste to take out your opponent." Morgan: It seems you have studied many different styles. How old were you when you started training? Why did you train in so many styles? What ranks did you receive in each? What have you liked/disliked about the styles in which you trained?...Sorry for all the questions, just very curious. The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:18:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #171 In a message dated 3/14/00 10:35:45 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << At this stage in my life though, given my strengths and weaknesses, I find Hapkido makes more sense for self defense. Im also figuring which martial art will be most practical as I get older, Im 43 now. I believe that TKD is more of a young persons art. >> Jose, I'm also 43, a 4th dan in TKD and a 2nd dan in Combat Hapkido. I agree with your comments, excellent points. I love TKD and am beginning to appreciate hapkido more and more. I like TKD due to it being target oriented. I like hapkido but sometimes find it to be too technique oriented, t hus a high level of maintenance. Both have positives and liabilities. But I find that hapkido completes the circle, making one a more complete martial artist, and more prepared for the street. Gary P. ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:22:42 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Surprise Black Belt To Michelle: I have heard of such "Tests" for black belt. As a matter of fact, a Black Belt friend of mine received his 4th Dan in Shorin Riu in the same manner. It seems that in their organization the head instructor pays attention to the achievments, number of students, performance, etc. over the course of a year, or in this case years, and surprises the person with the new rank at a promotion banquet. It was my understanding, from my friend, that they do not "Test" for Black Belt Ranks...their instructor decides when and if they are ready to recieve it. I have been informed of the same in other Japanese and Okinowan styles, but unaware of such practice in TKD or other Korean styles. Though I do personally know of a few Korean Instructors that will tell their Black Belts when it is time for them to test for their new rank. That time may be years after the "Reccommended" frame of time...or may be much earlier than the reccommended time alotment. My Friends name is Doug Yates from Ohio. Not sure if you are aquainted with him. In the late 70s and early 80s he was ranked 3rd in the world and 2nd in the nation for 3 years running in full contact. I have lost touch with him over the years. If anyone has heard of him or knows of him, I would appreciate you contacting me. tink73@earthlink.net Thanks. The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 7:25:38 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do > Soo Bahk Do is the ancient martial art of Korea. Tang Soo Do is based on Soo > Bahk Do, Kung Fu and Okinawan karate (plus others). Actually, we think Subakki was an ancient martial art of Korea. We know nothing of it. Soo Bahk Do is just a name that GM Hwang Kee came up with when he encountered the old name of Subakki. Other than a similar name there is no relationship. Tang Soo Do is and means Karate-do. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:17:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #172 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.