From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #174 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 15 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 174 In this issue: the_dojang: HapKiDo Seminar in Mosinee, WI the_dojang: Fw: HapKiDo, AiKiDo: Hard, Soft the_dojang: Tae Bo the_dojang: Re: Fancy Smancy Kicks the_dojang: RE: ITF politics (was: USTU corruption) the_dojang: Concerns with the USTU the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do the_dojang: Weight - advantage or disadvantage? the_dojang: Hapkido/Aikido Re: the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do Re: the_dojang: ITF politics (was: USTU corruption) [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:03:00 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: HapKiDo Seminar in Mosinee, WI For Donna and Jeremy et al: I will be conducting a HapKiDo seminar at the Central Wisconsin Martial Art Institute on the weekend of Sept. 23rd, as a guest of Mr. and Mrs. Dave Pryga. Mrs. West and I will be accompanied by 2 or 3 of our blackbelt students and look forward to seeing everyone again. For more info, contact dave Pryga at cwmai@aol.com , or me. ...J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:07:40 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Fw: HapKiDo, AiKiDo: Hard, Soft As per request, here it is again: >I think that the main differences between the two arts is in the differences >between the mentalities of the originators, and the history of the nations >involved. I had the opportunity in the mid '60's to see O Sensei and hear >him speak, and it was VERY obvious to me that his being a Shinto Priest >influenced not only the basic motion of his art, but also the "mentality" of >his art. As he approached, he carried a small hand broom like the ones that >are so prevalent throughout the Orient, and as he walked, he swept it back >and forth in front of him. We were told that this was done in order that he >never accidentally step on an insect and by doing that, take a life, no >matter how small or insignificant. This philosophy translated to his AiKiDo >in every way, as the AiKiDo practitioners that I saw and trained with would >always "push" you away, push you down, and basically make your attack on >them pointless to the point where you went away uninjured. The Korean >mentality was expressed by one of my instructors who said, to paraphrase his >words, "any enemy that leaves a battle under his own power is an enemy that >you will face again along with his children, and a person who loses a self >defense situation is not a HapKiDo man, but if you sneak up on a sleeping >enemy and crush his head with a stone, that is a good HapKiDo technique". >After 35 years of domination by a foreign power, your mentality on combat >changes. I have found that the majority of AiKiDo people that I have come >across had GREAT knowledge of basic motion and understood that motion as >well as anyone I've ever seen, whereas the Korean HapKiDo instructors were >more "result oriented" and more mentally flexible in the ideas of motion in >order to achieve a certain result. When I first had the opportunity to >actually train in AiKiDo (I hold a 1st dan) the instructor thought that I >was deranged after watching my falls. "Do not attack the mat, become part >of it", or "there is no need to frighten your uke with your techniques". It >was just very different from the art I was familiar with, although the >mechanics were recognizable. To settle the discussion on "hard and soft" >arts, I think this is a matter of semantics. Internal and external are >words that are also used to differentiate between the arts in an attempt to >categorize them. Let it suffice to say that some arts are effective because >I can hit harder and faster than you, and some are effective because the >advantage comes from moving your attacker into a position of weakness to the >point where he is unable to defend himself. Both are good and viable forms, >and in some rare instances they have tendency to overlap. I have to agree >with many others in that anyone that has ever seen me do a technique would >have difficulty in classifying it as "soft".....J. R. West www.hapkido.com > ------------------------------ From: TKDAZZKIKR@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:35:51 EST Subject: the_dojang: Tae Bo I am currently just a yellow belt in TKD, but have been reading your list for a while. I also teach cardio-kickboxing and athletic conditioning at my local YMCA. In answer to Mitar's question, TaeBo should be used solely for aerobic purposes. I have incorporated some of the moves into my kickboxing class, and my students love it; it is a fantastic workout. However, in my opinion, it is dangerous to advertise it as a self-defense class. It is intended for use as a non-contact aerobic conditioning class, and to portray it as a self-defense class could possibly give someone a false sense of security. For someone who is trained in martial arts (or any kind of combat), some of the moves have practical purpose, but for someone who is not, the TaeBo workout is just that- a WORKOUT. By the way, I love this list, I have learned so much from listening to you guys! Thank you! Stephanie ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:39:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Fancy Smancy Kicks > From: IntlKido@aol.com > << Ken wrote, in part: > > As someone previously noted, in a real world situation what do you > > think would be better: > > a. One of those fancy smancy high kicks, or: > > b. A low line level kick to X's knee, shin, or thigh ? > > If you click on b above, then why practice the aero kicks ? > > Again, no slam on other styles or training. Just thinking over > > practical stuff. >> > > That depends totally on the situation. You have to understand when > and why to use high kicks before you can apply them properly. Amen, Halleluja, and I second that motion! ;-) I can't tell you how many times I've heard people claim that high-section kicks are impractical/stupid/whatever. My instructor is Mr. Robert Rhone, one of _the best_ kickers around. I know of _at least_ two real-life situations wherein he's nailed somebody in the head with a spinning hook kick / reverse turning kick. Both times the kick resulted in a knock-out. In one case (a _very_ serious situation, guns were drawn and all that), the individual who received the kick needed hospitalization and surgery to put his face back together. I'd say that counts as an effective kick. Now, granted, Mr. Rhone is a highly unusual person - we're still trying to figure out what planet he's from! ;-) Realistically, some people can't do what he can. But, also realistically, many people _can_ throw those kicks, if they are willing to put in the time to develop their technique. I'm an example. I'm fairly short - 5'7" - with a blocky build, narrow hips, and short legs. But, I've been training with Mr. Rhone for nearly 20 years. Have I developed some kicking ability? Yes. Would I consider going to the head in a street fight? Absolutely, if the situation called for it. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:33:09 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: ITF politics (was: USTU corruption) begin snip In all honesty, we _do_ have (more than?) our fair share of politics, some of which comes out in competition. There are factions in the ITF that have serious issues with each other. end snip No kidding! Like the whole USTF/KATU thing. Who really "represents" ITF TKD in the United States? As a lowly 4th dan this just drives me nuts! Taekwon Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:37:46 EST Subject: the_dojang: Concerns with the USTU Needless to say I read the comments about USTU concerns with a lot of interest - a few years ago I wrote the same letters - different state, different names - same story. There is a difference however. I didn't give up and quit. I never assumed that I could never bring about change and I never stopped fighting. The major lessons I learned in TKD were perserverence, indomitable spirit and conviction of ultimate victory. I used them daily. I saw what happened with the USTU when everyone in our state got fed up and bowed out. Things got worse. I also saw what happened when we fought for what we believed in. How can we face our students and tell them that some things are just not worth fighting over - like athlete's rights etc...? The USTU and what it symbolizes is worth fighting for. In the past four years we have seen major strides. I personally have seen one of my bylaw changes enacted by the National BOG and I expect to see more. I have seen an organization full of good ole boys forced into the new millenium kicking and screaming but functioning. There are two fallacies in the arguments that I see - 1) Is that people confuse the USTU with some of the people who belong. Like any large organization there are any number of people who belong only for self-glorification and for their own power trips. To say that this describes the entire USTU is wrong. 2) To say that Sang Lee would use his position to sway an individual election to the degree that was described would also be wrong. Yes I believe that anyone would naturally support their friends. Yes I believe that in behind the scenes quiet ways ANYONE would help their friends. However, I can also tell you that Sang Lee is not stupid. Sang Lee has no desire to lose the Olympics for the USTU and to be thought of as the person who lost them. Does anyone honestly believe that Sang Lee would step in and blatantly fix an election in a relatively small state - just for the hell of it? I have met the people on the USOC Task Force on TKD. I have spoken with them one on one. Believe me, they would not allow or permit such a thing to happen. Sang Lee is not dumb enough to encourage the wrath of the USOC over such a thing. Dr. Evie Dennis would be on his assets in a heartbeat. That is not to say that I don't hear at least one side in every USTU dispute say "Sang Lee is behind me." Saying something and the reality is sometimes totally different. Everyone has a lawyer, and everyone has Sang Lee behind them. Anyway, back to my point. I read a lot about respected masters and grandmasters who are bowing out of this struggle to make the USTU the organization we want it to be. I challenge the writers of those notes to tell me something. What makes me so special and different that I can do what they can't? How can a 4th dan female from Oklahoma accomplish what all these high ranking masters and grandmasters can't? There is only one answer - I am not special - it can be done. The difference between me and the others is I refused to admit defeat and I refused to let go. I was willing to put myself out on the firing line. I worked and worked to change the USTU from the outside and made some progress. I started working from within - I read the bylaws and applied them - and I made a lot more progress. And there is one other difference - once I accomplished my goals - I worked. I do what is necessary to continue to make changes. I still see things that need to change, and along with complaining about them, I come up with ideas and solutions and I pitch them, and I work to bring about change. I work with people I wouldn't have spoken to 5 years ago. I work with anyone whom I believe is looking out for the good of TKD and the USTU. Is the USTU where I personally want it to be? no Is OK where I want it to be? no Am I willing to put in the sweat equity to make it what I want? You bet. Do you have any idea how I feel when I go to out of state tournaments and the person I am talking to doesn't know I am OK state president - and that person tells me that they hear that OK has really developed a reputation for working for their athletes? I can't tell you how great this feels. I can't tell you how it feels to know that what my staff/my supporters have done is now a model for the rest of the United States. People look at us and say "If OK can do it, and it was a royal embarrassment - so can we." But the key is that the USTU is not going to do it for you - you have to do it yourselves. You have to be willing to step aside and evaluate - "am i doing this for the good of the athletes - or my own personal agenda?" You have to look at the personalities involved and separate who is working for the athletes and who is working for themselves. Sometimes you might not like a person, but their agenda could be closer to what you want than the person you like, but might be on a power trip. I don't know a lot about the MA situation. I know there is a complaint that has been filed and I don't think it has been finalized. I know that the complaint process works - it's just SLOW. But then so is the US Judicial system. Take it to court - see how many years it will take (Been there, done that) at least the USTU process is faster than that. The key to it all is to read and understand the bylaws. I would need more details before I could even comment on what happened in MA. I heard it was an embarrasment on all sides. I can tell you there are answers, as long as you are willing to do your homework and do the groundwork. Giving up is not the answer. Show me an organization without politics and I will be looking at an organization with one person. Politics is a fact of life - PTA, Little League, Church - you simply have to learn to adapt to the situation and make it work for you. You can't tell me there are no politics in the AAU because I know better. Read the bylaws, know the rules - and don't be afraid to ask for help. Others have been thru exactly the same situations - some failed - but a lot succeeded. Look not just at Oklahoma, but Indiana, Ohio, Wyoming, Montana, Iowa, there are a lot of state organizations that work. Ask Garth Cooley, Bob Gallaher, Wes Dees, Al Coles, Ronda Sweet and all those others for help - I can guarantee no one will be turned away. Learn from our mistakes and our victories. Together we are strong. The USTU is the sum of such dedicated individuals - but it is not one or two rotten apples. Unfortunately, the only contact some people have with the USTU are those few rotten apples. The USTU is what we choose to make it. That is my attitude and I think that what I have accomplished in the last three years proves my point. Ronda J. Sweet OK State President USTU Publication Vice Chair USTU National Referee Member of Complaint Panel Active USTU member ------------------------------ From: Patrick Russell Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:21:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do - --0-1957747793-953158916=:20010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mr. McKenna, You were correct in saying that Soo Bahk Do is an ancient art in Korea. The Soo Bahk Do that is practiced in the United States today is that very same art. If you would like more information, go to www.soobahkdo.com. Pat Russell E Dan, Soo Bahk Do - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. - --0-1957747793-953158916=:20010 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Mr. McKenna,

You were correct in saying that Soo Bahk Do is an ancient art in Korea. The Soo Bahk Do that is practiced in the United States today is that very same art. If you would like more information, go to www.soobahkdo.com.

Pat Russell
E Dan, Soo Bahk Do


Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. - --0-1957747793-953158916=:20010-- ------------------------------ From: "Mitar" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:36:31 +0100 cet Subject: the_dojang: Weight - advantage or disadvantage? Thanks to all of you that have responded to my question about Tae Bo very much. Here goes another one. If I am right (please correct me if not), the weight categories on the Olympic Games TKD selection tournament, held in Croatia last summer, were: 1. Fly weight category (48 - 58 kg) 2. Light weight category (58 - 68 kg) 3. Welter weight category (68 - 80 kg) 4. Heavy weight category (over 80 kg) According to this, I suppose that TKD weight categories on the most of TKD tournaments (WTF) are the same. The question is: is it better to have the minimal or the maximal weight in your category? For example let's say that I'm in the welter category. Is it better to have 68 kg or 80 kg. A friend of mine that has been a kick - - - boxer for many years, and has had numerous matches says that it is a huge advantage to be heavier than your opponent (musculature, of course), although you may think that is a bit faster than you. I wonder is it the same in TKD sport fighting? Regards, Mitar ------------------------------ From: "G. Booth" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:37:58 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido/Aikido Just a quick one, I would have to disagree that Aikido is the Japanese form of Hapkido. To say that they had a common ancestor is fine, but that would have to be the end of it, the arts have diametrically opposed philosophies when it comes to dealing with your opponent, Aikido - Peace, Hapkido - Basically to destroy you opponent no matter what, the Physical components even differ with Hapkido's great range of strikes and strike defence. Do Aikidoka kick? Anyway my thoughts, my rumblings. Geoff Booth International Hapkido Alliance Australia Hapkido Group http://hapkido.netro.com.au "The art is in the person, all we have to do is bring it out" ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:57:25 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do / Moo Duk Kwan / Soo Bahk Do > You were correct in saying that Soo Bahk Do is an ancient art in Korea. Subakki was the ancient art. But Soo Bahk Do and Subakki are unrelated. Soo Bahk Do was created in the 1950s by GM Hwang Kee. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:57:58 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: ITF politics (was: USTU corruption) > On a slightly unrelated note, what ever happened with those big > scandals at the USTU HQ in Colorado Springs? There was one big thing > going on about money (the IRS and FBI were on that one), plus wasn't > Sang Lee accused of sexual assault on a female athlete? They turned out to be nothing. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:45:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #174 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.