From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #193 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 25 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 193 In this issue: the_dojang: minimizing the truth the_dojang: Women Instructors the_dojang: Re: black belt + road trip = experience? :) the_dojang: Re: women only the_dojang: Pet Peeve (Opinion) the_dojang: For Master Mahan the_dojang: #191 the_dojang: Re: Shendo the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #191 the_dojang: failing tests the_dojang: Re: Similarities the_dojang: Dit da jow the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #191 the_dojang: Re: All women schools the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #192 Re: the_dojang: minimizing the truth the_dojang: favorite tangents ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Kamienski Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:35:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: minimizing the truth From: Chris S Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:55:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Violence >> them. Female on male violence is not pervasive so similarities or >> generalities can not be made in reverse. > >Actually it is common, not VERY common, but common. It is very seldom >reported, which makes it seem not pervasive. Female violence toward males is often not thought to be common because many guys would not say that a woman had hit them, and thus there are few reported instances of it. Besides, many men have been taught to just 'shrug it off', even for something that is serious. Chris Chris, Women are 10 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate. This is a verifiable statistic. The magnitude of violence against women, must not be lost or minimized while acknowledging the existence of, actual, but infrequent, instances of female on male violence. This is very important. It is a common tactic to gloss over the horror of it all by drawing attention away from it. Stuff that's hard to cope with often results in this kind of side stepping. Laura - -- lkamiens@ptd.net lkamnski@bucknell.edu http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "Why don't you give me a call when you decide you are willing to fight; for what you think is real, for what you think is right." Ani DiFranco ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:57:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Women Instructors After earning my 2nd Gup in the Jhoon Rhee TKD system, I moved to Columbia, SC. I knew just enough about martial arts to know I was looking for quality, not just someone who would "honor my belt". One night I went to a high quality TKD school in the area, had a great workout with the senior belts, and took home the sign-up paper work. As fate would have it, 2 miles from my apartment I say a sign I hadn't seen before for a dojang. It was about 10PM by then but the light was still on. One of the head instructors was refining HER jump spinning back kick on the heavy bag. It wasn't the speed and power (all though there was plenty of that) that impressed me as much as the concentration. I signed up on my American Express that night and showed up the next night white belt and dobohk in hand. That was my introduction to what Tang Soo Do is about and I never looked back. To Ms. Sheila Carpenter, It was an honor to be your "first born" (first blackbelt) and even though we are both Sam Dans now, I remain as ever, respectfully your student. Charles ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:48:45 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: black belt + road trip = experience? :) In a message dated 3/24/00 7:16:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << PS. that thing about black belts tying their belts to their cars sounds kinda crazy to me melinda... 8) >> i agree :) ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:45:56 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: women only In a message dated 3/24/00 7:16:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Actually, it is quite legal and there are women only schools operating in the USA. >> i am aware that there have been lawsuits over women only gyms and men only gyms where it was found to be unconstitutional (based on discrimination) to exclude based on gender. i am not stating that a women only dojang or a men only dojang is a bad idea...just that i believe it could be challenged in court. some fool is going to want his 15 minutes of fame and will see this as an opportunity. it's happened b4. melinda ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: "tink73" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:27:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Pet Peeve (Opinion) Ok...Nothing against women at all...enjoy them much...enjoy training with them...enjoy learning from them...enjoy teaching them... I DO NOT want this to cause any ruckus or conflict...just want you to think about a few things...this is strictly MY opinion...please don't turn this into a conflict...just express your opinion HOWEVER...WHY women's ONLY schools...Women's only classes I can understand...some things are meant to be just for women...just as some things are meant to be just for men... But Martial arts is for everybody...not just women...a school just for women (IMHO)...in essence is making the statement that women are to be segregated from men and are never to be part of training with men...nor are men to ever share in the training with women...obviously women must be better than men because they are allowed to have their own private schools for training...there must be a martial art specifically for women only since men are not allowed...can you tell me what the art style is and what its genealogy and history is that makes it so special as to require a WOMEN'S ONLY school for learning? Just imagine...if a school opened for MEN ONLY...how long would it be before suit was filed and the school either closed or became coed...just think about the message a WOMEN ONLY school is sending... Sorry for spouting... The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "tink73" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:45:35 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: For Master Mahan Master Mahan... Please forgive my questions, but I am very curious and I mean no offense to you... You hold a Master rank in two arts and a 3rd degree in a third art...did you receive this instruction in the service...which I presume to be the Army...perhaps Green Beret...may I ask your rank in the Army? What is your age... at what point did you start training...it seems you have achieved a great deal in martial arts training...I would like to know more... Thanks The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:19:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: #191 Congrats Ken on your promotion...heal well, now the real training starts ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:28:33 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Shendo Todd - I have been with Grandmaster Ed Annibale (my present master) since '97. I have been training since 1979. Jim Mahan ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:24:41 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #191 In a message dated 3/24/00 3:16:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Female on male violence is not pervasive so similarities or > generalities can not be made in reverse. Actually it is common, not VERY common, but common. It is very seldom reported, which makes it seem not pervasive. >> Of the arrests I have made for domestic violence/assault, 40% are women. That is current real world info...and yes, the men rarely report it...luckily, my state has a shall arrest law for dv/a, and even if the victim doesnt want to prosecute, the state will. Officer Mark Gajdostik ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:43:53 EST Subject: the_dojang: failing tests Hey all !!! Last Wednesday, a fellow instructor invited me to his dojang to help with testing. I train with him several times a month, and I get a chance to see his students perform. I was suprised to see several test candidates that I felt shouldnt be anywhere near a test, but I held my tongue. Most of the students did very well, and I issued my recommendation of promotion. Two, however, I did not feel met minimum ability criterium, and I recommended them to fail. He passed them both. His school, his perogative, I know, but one of his higher ranking students (part of the leadership team) came to me later and asked why the two passed. I told him various reasons to promote a student (time spent, improvement seen, attitude, effort etc.) I do not hold tests...I hold promotions. When I feel the person is ready, they get promoted. I still make gup ranks perform all of their requirements, but they will not fail (but they dont know that...my secret) :) My question to the instructors of the list....Do you promote or test, and if you test do you fail students? Best Regards, Mark Gajdostik Oregon Fighting Arts/ TNT-Police Combatives ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:07:07 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Similarities Jose - I am not really a historian/tactician when it comes to cataloging the major differences between arts. However there are a great many that come to mind right off. 1) Shiho - nage 2) Son Mak Soo #10 I seems to me that these two throws/takedowns are the exact same thing. They both have the 4 corner turning motion that ends with the attackers hand/arm/elbow in that familiar figure 4 look. They only major differences I note are that in the Shendo the movements are more compact and tightly done. The Hapkido movements are done in a Hei-Jun manner with a different type of pivot point. There are many others that can be noted, but if you look at the Dwiro-dora (turn without stepping), the Ban-Hei-jun (half turn with 1 step) and the Hei-Jun (Full turn with 2 steps) of Hapkido; they are very similar to the Ryusui (Circular Dodge), the Hiraki Sagari (Sliding Retreat), the Zen Tenkan (Full turning dodge), and the Hon Tenkan (Half turning dodge) of Aikijitsu and Jujitsu. Also, the joint locking and manipulation techniques are close to identical with a few twists (Ha!). The Kote- Hineri (Inward wrist lock), and the Kote-Gaeshi (Outer Wristlock and throw) are very similar to the San Mak Soo #7 (Inward wrist lock) and the San Mak Soo # 21 (Outer Wristlock and throw). Many, many more..... The philosophy of the two is alot different, but here is the kick. They are both very combative. I guess that it always goes back to your instructor. I have always had very feisty and combative instructors, so my taste of both have been a plethora of pain and flying through the air. The lessons of philo were never really taught much. The general aspects of the meditation and Ki/Chi breathing exercises and development was taught more in the Aiki. I was given more latitude in my version of the Aiki than I was in learning Hapkido. Oh, well... More later Jim Mahan Jim ------------------------------ From: Gold Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:41:25 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Dit da jow Pertaining to the old threads about hand conditioning. Yes, dit da jow is not a cure all. Internal is much better but not a substitute for bruises/conditioning. A basic internal dit da jow should have 5 basic herbs: Ginseng (panax), Angelica root (dang gui-dong quai) aka female ginseng, Madder root (a natural dye, cools the blood), alfalfa and rhubarb. The latter clears dead blood from the system. In western terms it has oxalic acid which chelates iron. Chelate means it converts the metal ion into something easily flushable from the body through the urine and feces. But its more complex than that. You can see, smell the results.... :) All the above stuff is EASY to get. Dry the rhubarb first even if you make a tincture. If you have access to a chinese herb shop make a POTENT 6 herb internal dit da jow by adding Cat tail pollen (raw). the single most potent blood clot dissolver... Heated it clots blood very well and would be found in any good cut powder. I think this is the "red" ingredient in yunnan biao because you roast it till it turns a dark red or brown color. Its a yellowish if its raw. I can only speculate because this formula is a chinese state secret. :) You could also throw in according to your tastes, literally, fennel, anise, and wormwood. These have potential psychoactive effects so use at your own discresion if you make a tincture. You'd basiclly have absinthe with these ingredients in a alchohol. You can also subsitute ginseng for astralagus if you like. It has a bit of a stimulant effect and is good for "external" chi. I sometimes throw chunks in green tea it makes me sleepy. (?) Saving the madder root i've experimented with all these herbs. I have no idea what cool blood feels like. Chinese medica's are pretty minimallist with descriptions. Chuan xiong below is classifyed as "tonify chi" herb. Experience is worth a 1000 words. As far as the guy with knee problems. Try just taking alfalfa pills. Cheaper than dirt and great for repairing damaged cartilage. It also diliates blood vessles and capillarys. Amounts? Chinese have a nice system of using primary, secondary and helper herbs. I like to use a once, half ounce, 1/4 once equivalent and it works out quite well. Ginsengs are usually primary or in this case i'd use them as helper herbs. Primary herbs for internal injury/blood clots/prevention are the rhubarb, alfalfa. Madder and cat tail pollen being very important but optional because they are harder to get. The others helper herbs. So, for example: 1 oz: Madder, Rhubarb, Alfalfa,cattail 1/2 ginsengs/astralagus, 1/4 fennel, anise, wormwood. Experiment. Being from a defacto zen macrobiotics 'lineage', I agree that one should stick to herbs and plants that are found locally. As close as possible. For healing something need not be some special herb. An orange, grass, or single grain of pollen can be very healing or very deadly.... if your allergic.. I suggest getting an ounce of each, and some alchohol for a tincture or glycerine if you cant drink alchohol. For pills you may need more but grind into a powder and add to a small thing of honey till it gets very dense. Roll into a log and cut into 1" sections and roll in powdered milk and store in the fridge in a jar. [Old formulas would roll in cinnibar. :)] Take with something hot like tea about once a month for 'maintenene' or ad libitum. Signing off. If you want to talk to me about this, e-mail me directly. Turiyan ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:13:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #191 In a message dated 3/24/00 5:16:18 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Many women don't trust men enough to train with them or simply can't emotionally handle training with them. Female on male violence is not pervasive so similarities or generalities can not be made in reverse. >> Where do ya'll live? This male vs female, female vs. male, topic just doesn't compute in our area. I'm a male, have equally amount of female and male students. None have shown any preference as to whether the class is being taught by me or one of my female instructors. Also there are a couple of schools in the area in which the owner and head instructor is female and both are doing quite well, both having a healthy balance of male and female students. I've been reading these posts, and I'm not sure if I live in Mars or it's ya'll. :) Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:15:36 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: All women schools An all women's martial arts school might be an ideal training environment for many women. I have no problem with it. This would work well if martial arts training is sought for fitness or self development. But for self-defense purposes, there is a serious trade off. I was always told to train with partners of various shapes and sizes and strengths. What works on one type of person may not work on another, or may require some modification. Men are physically different from women in a number of ways, often in terms of strength, in the manner in which or aggression with which they move, etc. Now take a woman who has only trained with women, who has never experienced what it feels like to spar with a man, never experienced what it feels like to be grabbed by a man, never experienced how a man tends to attack, never experienced a man's physical aggression, never got to see if what works on most women will work on most men. The first time this woman is grabbed by a man on the streets it would be a total surprise (unless of course she has been in a physically abusive relationship). God help this woman if she now has to defend herself against a man on the street. An all women martial arts schools is fine. But members of these school should be informed about the drawback in terms of practical self defense. Jose' ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:21:01 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #192 In a message dated 3/24/00 9:17:22 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << PS. that thing about black belts tying their belts to their cars sounds kinda crazy to me melinda... 8) >> I always wondered how some of those belts got so old and ragged. Now I know. Gotta go for a spin, now where did I put my black belt? :) Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 8:43:22 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: minimizing the truth > It is a common tactic to gloss over the horror of it all by drawing > attention away from it. Stuff that's hard to cope with often results in > this kind of side stepping. This isn't difficult to cope with and no one is side stepping anything. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:24:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: favorite tangents Ok folks, the quick tangent on women on men and men on women rape/violence is over. No need to continue. Points have been made, now more on. Ray ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #193 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.