From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #196 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 26 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 196 In this issue: the_dojang: Promotions or Tests? the_dojang: Re: Ray the_dojang: competitionn sparring the_dojang: Re: Board Breaks the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #195 the_dojang: To whom does it make a difference? the_dojang: Re: Women only classes the_dojang: Re: women instructors the_dojang: Re: minimizing truth the_dojang: 5 month Blue Belt the_dojang: Re: BB promotion Re: the_dojang: competitionn sparring [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mac" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:12:40 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Promotions or Tests? << I do not hold tests...I hold promotions. When I feel the person is ready, they get promoted. I still make gup ranks perform all of their requirements, but they will not fail (but they dont know that...my secret) :) My question to the instructors of the list....Do you promote or test, and if you test do you fail students?>> Kind of both. *Usually*, I don't ask a student to test unless I feel they are ready and can pass a test. I would hate to set them up to fail. Therefore, I have failed very few students. It does happen though, in fact at my last gup testing. The student in question had not tested in over a year, so I thought it was about time to at least let them try. It took the student an extra month of trying after failing the test to prove to me they could do it. It wasn't 100% like I would like, but just barely enough to get by. So I finally promoted the student. It will be a very long time again before this student will even be offered the opportunity to test again.... This student is completely mentally and physically capable and could do it if they wanted to. But there is a complete lack of effort in their training, which begins to show through in everything they do. This student did it to themselves, and now wonders why they can't perform properly. (an older sibling and father are both 1st gups with me) PS: My wife saw the mother of this student at school. The mother was telling my wife that I must not have been holding the board right, and that is why the student couldn't break their board for me. Guess I have more to learn too.... :-) Seems its all my fault, not the students. I guess a little 9 yr old newly promoted 5th gup and their mother know more than I, with my measly 25 years experience. Go figure. Such is life.... Mac ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:12:25 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ray Ray - Yep - I lump the two together..... I use the one where the other leaves off. My personal favorite training is in Silat. I just do not like the politics that have sprung up lately to join the rest of the martial arts politics. Jim ------------------------------ From: Kevin Piller Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:28:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: competitionn sparring Hello, Is there a location on the internet that has written rules regarding sparring in competition? Your help is greatly appreciated. Kevin Piller ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:33:07 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Board Breaks In a message dated 3/25/00 4:02:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << there are days when you can't even buy a board break. Hey, it happens (it's happened to me twice). You don't give up. You practice harder and test again next time and get them. Here's a good example: at last World Championships, we had a 7th Degree Senior Master testing for 8th Degree. He didn't get his breaks and he no-changed. He tested again at the Spring Nationals and got the breaks. Perserverance is what it's all about. >> What board breaks didn't you get ? What board breaks was the Master required to do ? Just curious. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:40:50 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #195 In a message dated 3/25/00 4:02:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Would she have been as driven in a segregated class? Maybe. Would she have been as proficient? Probably not! Working with people of all backgrounds, sizes and body types certainly added to her training experience, not to mention her confidence. While living in CO, Renee was separated in a TKD school to the women's class, and after realizing her surroundings, she walked back to the men's class and advised the instructor that if she was going to wear a black belt at his school she was going to do everything that best student he had would have to do, and when she tested for her black belt, she WAS the best student he had. >> I found training with men to be a fun and interesting adventure. I wouldn't trade those years of working out with them for anything. It made me the person I am today. Would I have been a better person if I had only trained with women? I really don't know. But I do know that I have spent a lifetime of playing baseball, tag football, basketball, tennis, bowling, etc. with boys and men ... so what was so different about taking karate with a roomful of boys/men? Nothing to me. It was the same as it had always been to me in my life. Another avenue in my life to share with them. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: "A. Boyd" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:47:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: To whom does it make a difference? Last night was a friend's birthday party. In attendance were many martial arts students and two hapkido instructors. There was a lot of alcohol consumed by the majority of the attendees but no one was out of control. The party moved (unfortunately) to I'taewon and continued peacefully until it was time to go home. As we left the club we passed a brewing domestic squabble on the narrow stairs. It seemed minor. The couple were Arabic, speaking in English. The native Koreans amoung us didn't understand what was being said. The drunks amoung us were slow to cotton on to what was happening. The man harrassing his girlfriend had no idea he was doing anything wrong. The conversation slowly got more graphic. She was telling him she wanted to "to be allowed" to go home. I don't drink. I stayed at the bottom of the stairs in case this got out of hand. It did and the man pushed his girlfriend down the stairs - hard. I did nothing except step back.It seems really callous to me now but I stayed baack due to the tactical disadvantage of a possible scuffle on that stairwell. The girl was already at the bottom, he had to come to me anyway. You see, I was already realizing something I have never been preapred to face before. He had a friend at the bottom of the stairs it turns out. They picked her up to carry her to a car. I interposed and the man argued with me while I responded to him. I was becoming more and more aware how completely ignorant this man was of the inappropriateness of his actions. He kept saying, "Why are you interfering? She is my girlfriend." The mind boggles. Finally I received verbal and physical help from some of the more sober members of the party and we non-violently helped the girl walk away from him under her own power to be driven home by one of her friends. We endured the taunts and idiocy from the man for a while longer until he saw something and ran for it. The car which had pulled out of the parking lot was sitting waiting in the street. He jumped in and off they went. This is what I knew would happen although not quite so soon. Sooner or later he would go to her, or she to him and the violence would continue. I realized as soon as I began the process of intervention that no matter what I did there was no way I could permanently affect the situation. Worse, intervention on my part would likely make the girl's immediate situation worse. Yet, despite this depressing conclusion I still knew I had no choice but to interceed. I could not allow this to happen in my presence. So, the purpose of sharing this with you all is - does it make a difference? Can we make a difference? It seems so easy to offer platitudes and recycle pearls of wisdom but in the reality of the situation, what really gets accomplished? I am not totally distressed over this. I was thanked by a few of my friends for leading the way and patted on the back by a bystander for being an upright guy. I had an impact on people who were doing and will continue to do no wrong. I wonder though, will they also continue not to act until led? As a non-drinker it is hard for me to allow for the thick-headed state drunkeness causes. To my view they intentionally blinded themselves to their surroundings. Sober, most of them would have helped her instantly. But what about the girl? Her safety and her situation were the goal. We did nothing for her in the end. ===== Anthony BT Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher For illumination on this curious occupation please follow this link: http://victorian.fortunecity.com/operatic/739 ICQ#: 45348443 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Paul Rogers" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:29:56 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Women only classes Various thoughts on the subject: The senior rank at my school here in central Texas is a 6th degree Master of Songahm Taekwondo (ATA organization). I haven't taken too many classes from her in the past few years, other than some kickboxing aerobics, because she's getting her master's degree in neonatal nursing or somesuch. However, the times I've seen her in action have been MOST impressive. She is a great example of health, vitality, ability, and self-confidence. I've heard of a story (from her husband, also a 6th degree bb) about sparring with some senior ranks. There was a guy, way over 6' tall, who sparred everyone very aggressively. Then, he was matched up with our instructor. Apparently, he was obvious in his 'backing-off' while sparring her. This infuriated her, and she (all, like, 5'5" of her) started kicking him in the head until he picked up the pace. She reported told him "don't ever let up just because you're opponent is a woman." Cool... 8?) Maybe I should interview her and get it on the school's web site (http://www.NiblocksATA.com). Anyway, IMHO, the benefits of martial arts training go far beyond just self-defense. Therefore, whatever can be done to get people involved and working out should be tried. If a segment of the female population would prefer a female-only environment, fine. As far as effectiveness goes, if I remember some of Ms. Kamienski's previous posts on the subject, many of the (Model Mugging? Guard-Up?) female only seminars involved full contact, high-adrenal-rush situations against a padded aggressor. Sounds like excellent training to me...! My 0.02. Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX P.S. Here's a interesting web search result on the subject of FonM dv/a: http://pages.ripco.net/~holzman//maledv/ ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:18:19 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: women instructors In a message dated 3/25/00 8:31:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << To Ms. Sheila Carpenter, It was an honor to be your "first born" (first blackbelt) and even though we are both Sam Dans now, I remain as ever, respectfully your student. Charles >> great experience, charles! thanks for sharing that :) melinda ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:16:46 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: minimizing truth In a message dated 3/25/00 8:31:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It is a common tactic to gloss over the horror of it all by drawing attention away from it. Stuff that's hard to cope with often results in this kind of side stepping. >> this sounds as if you are accusing chris of having an agenda subversive motives. am i reading you wrong? if not, i think that might be a little harsh. if i am reading you wrong, i apologise for stepping in, although perhaps clarity would be called for. melinda ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: "Gecko K. Martial Arts" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:45:04 PST Subject: the_dojang: 5 month Blue Belt Hi guys, I just say a 8 year old who has only been doing martial arts for 5 months just get his blue belt today. Have you guys run into this often? What are your thoughts? Thanks Sandy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:47:22 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: BB promotion >> Update: In 1998 my instructors were pushing me to test for my BB and I >> refused because I was not ready physically or mentally. The master >> agreed >> to let me decide when I would be ready to test.(I can be more >> stubborn/obstinate than a rock. My wife says I have as many brain cells >> as >> one.) Recently I received an invitation to the national black belt testing. I forwarded the info to two of my senior students, both 1st Kup, telling them that if they want to test, I`ll be just glad to send their entries to the National Testing Board. Both of them (independently - they train in two different branches of my school) came to me and said they will not test this time, since they feel there are some things they want to work on and improve before testing, and that they will give it a try in October, when the second national testing will be held. And I must admit I was really happy, and supported their decision wholeheartedly. This was just the kind of attitude I expect from my black belt candidates. Needless to say, if their decision would be to test, I`d agree as well. Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 7:29:49 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: competitionn sparring > Is there a location on the internet that has written rules regarding > sparring in competition? Check the links on www.martialartsresource.com Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:15:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #196 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.