From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #204 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 28 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 204 In this issue: the_dojang: Report Cards..... the_dojang: Re: report cards the_dojang: Scholastic honors the_dojang: Fw: A woman martial artists speaks her mind! (long but worth it!) the_dojang: Re: Report Card Issue the_dojang: Sports and Report Cards the_dojang: RE: Report Cards [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:42:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Report Cards..... Well, I was going to chime in on the report card discussion, but after reading Mark C. Gajdostik's post, I feel there is nothing I could add, but still much to learn. To Mark C. Gajdostik: Great post. Once again, experience proves to be the best teacher. "virtual bow" to you, Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: "Mark M. Smith" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:49:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: report cards At 12:45 PM 3/28/00 -0800, you wrote: >From: "rich hodder" > >I seem to set off a fire storm of reaction to the arbitrary report card >system of the public school system as it involves martial arts schools. >I am sorry. Please, Rich do not feel sorry. This debate is what the list is all about. Lots of differing opinions being aired. Hopefully, we all come away from the debate with some new insights even if our opinions are mostly unchanged. After living through the dry spells of "Anyone still out there" messages on the list, this kind of debate is great. I have yet to see anything in this debate that I thought was out of line. I think most people seem to have the same goals in mind even if the techniques they use to reach those goals are a little different. Mark M. Smith Merrimack, NH email: msmith@p2software.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:51:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Scholastic honors My wife has come up with a great scholastic reward program for her kid students. If the parents write a note saying the child has had a great (in THEIR opinion) report card, we give them a ribbon saying "Honor Club". If the child raises a grade, whether it is an "F" to a "D", or an "A" to an "A+", they receive a "Rising Star Club" ribbon. This gives the child that is not an "A" student a chance to strive for excellence and be rewarded for the attempt.... J. R. West ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:53:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Fw: A woman martial artists speaks her mind! (long but worth it!) My wife asked me to forward this post that was originally sent to a womens only list....JRW >Subject: A woman martial artists speaks her mind! (long but worth it!) > >> Hello fellow women martial artists, >> >> I have been listening to many of you talk about censorship, Bill Wallace, >> men bashing, all women martial arts schools, etc. for some time now and I >> can be silent no more! Since I have been polite enough to listen to your >> viewpoints, please allow me the same courtesy. >> >> First of all, EVERYONE knows what kind of person Bill Wallace is. This >> includes men and women worldwide. It is obvious that he is not discreet in >> his beliefs and that he doesn't care what people think. People and >> businesses continue to associate with him because "he sells" and not because >> of his personal feelings about women. This is how business works. No >> amount of ranting is going to change this man. I feel that your time would >> be more productive if spent in positive martial arts training instead of >> whining. >> >> I agree with Meghan about men bashing. How are women different from men if >> we criticize and stereotype men? The way to change the perception of women >> in martial arts is by training hard and by persevering regardless of all >> obstacles, not by making fun of men! >> >> OK, I know I am losing some of you and I can feel the steam rising from your >> heads but please hear me out. When I started training in martial arts so >> long ago - 20 years - women were treated as the temporary nuisance that >> gradually faded away. At this time in history, martial arts was definitely >> male-dominated. I saw many women start training and then quickly leave. I >> was fortunate that in my HapKiDo school, women were trained exactly like the >> guys, with no special treatment and we were not welcome. I was quite >> intimidated by the proficiency of the men. In case you don't know, HapKiDo >> is a Korean art that redirects an opponent's momentum against the opponent >> by using movement not strength. My art uses pressure points, joint locks, >> kicks and throws for self-defense. You can imagine how I felt with no women >> role models as I saw guys throwing guys through the air. I wasn't sure if I >> would ever be able to be thrown much less be able to toss a much larger male >> student. By staying focused on my training and ignoring the fact that the >> men were stronger than me, I was able to overcome my initial doubts and now >> my techniques speak for me. I am respected throughout the world as a master >> of HapKiDo. Notice that I did not say "woman master." >> >> To gain this respect was a long fought battle. I was constantly ignored and >> talked down to because I was a woman but I did not give up. I felt that I >> was just as entitled to learn martial arts as were the men. Through HARD >> training, sacrifice and demand for equality, I and other women have paved >> the way for women to be accepted in dojangs everywhere. I personally feel >> that an all woman school is an injustice to all women and an insult to >> myself and the other women who came before and after me. As far as we have >> come, women must not take a step back. I feel that women should demand >> fairness in training from our schools without having to create a false >> reality of an all woman school. Never let an injustice pass and remember >> that it takes many raindrops to make a river when you feel that you are >> making no progress. If you are afraid to confront your instructor about >> inequalities in training, ask yourself, why am I allowing this kind of >> person to lead me on the journey that is martial arts? It took many years >> of standing firmly on my beliefs before concrete changes were implemented >> in my school. >> >> This leads me to the discussion of censorship. Laura stated, "I am >> completely and unambiguously opposed to censorship in every shape or form." >> Quite a strong statement from someone who censored a post made by my >> husband, Master J.R. West, 8th Degree HapKiDo, 4th Degree TaeKwonDo, with >> over 34 years experience, on one of the other lists. She took his words >> out of context and misrepresented his viewpoint for her own benefit: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Laura Kamienski >> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 12:30 PM >> > A male instructor wrote: >> > >> > <> > a segregated class? Maybe. Would she have been as proficient? Probably not >> > Working with people of all backgrounds, sizes and body types certainly >> > added to her training experience, not to mention her confidence.>> >> > >> Laura misrepresented his remarks to mean that a woman would not be able to >> become proficient in a segregated class. I don't know how long Laura has >> been training but it is obvious by her statements that she is fairly new to >> martial arts, probably training 5 years or less and holding a first degree >> black belt. How close am I? I don't know what kind of martial arts >> everyone is training in, but for me, HapKiDo is self-defense applicable to >> the streets, not just in tournaments which are SPORT ONLY. Big difference! >> Everyone's body is different, including men and women, therefore, the more >> different bodies that I practice with, the more proficient I am in my >> techniques against anybody, any size. This knowledge does not come from >> videos or books but by working on the mat, person to person. This is not to >> say that a woman can't teach HapKiDo effectively to other women. As Laura >> so misunderstood, for a woman to be able to defend herself against a man >> using HapKiDo, a woman MUST be familiar with a man's anatomy. Believe it or >> not, you will react in a self-defense situation in the manner in which you >> train. If you have never trained with men, how are you going to react if a >> man, instead of a woman, attacks you? How do you know what you will do? >> Remember that I am talking about realistic attacks, not tournament sparring. >> I have been attacked by a man and my HapKiDo worked just fine! My husband >> always insists that if I am ever attacked again, he wants to be behind me >> with a video camera so he can win the big money on "America's Funniest Home >> Videos." If I had only practiced with women, how would I have reacted to >> this man? I have confidence that I can defend myself against anyone, >> regardless of gender, size, race or whatever. This confidence comes from >> my co-ed training. >> >> If anyone would like to read my husband's uncensored post, it will follow >> this post. Thank you for listening. Just to clarify, I believe that women >> only seminars and conventions are a wonderful way for women to share stories >> and techniques and for all of us to support each other! >> >> Sincerely, >> Renee West >> 5th Degree Black Belt - HapKiDo >> 4th Degree Black Belt - TaeKwonDo >> West's Hapkido Academy >> www.hapkido.com >> srwest@netdoor.com ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:57:57 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Report Card Issue I believe that the issue of report cards is a never ending debate. Students should be evaluated on ability to perform technical skill in the dojang, not academic skill in the scholastic arena. I think that the whole report card thing started as an aside to help with the kids who do well and as a motivator for those who could use a little shove. Parents liked the idea, so school owners kept it going. What ever it takes to keep the parents happy, paying and in the school. ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:13:56 EST Subject: the_dojang: Sports and Report Cards In a message dated 3/28/00 12:31:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << P.S. My track and basketball coaches always checked report cards (even in the pre-elegibility requirement days). They were trying to make successful people, not just successful atheletes (a lot of coaches are kind of like that). Some kids probably didn't need it, some did. If they didn't, no big deal, if they did, thank God someone was there for them. >> The Pop Warner football in our town now requires report cards. None of the other sports do. If they have below a C ... then they recommend a tutor for the child. But no football till the grade is brought up. The soccer team (not the AYSO but a team that you have to try out for to get on) in town liked our To Do List so well ... that they took a copy of ours and made one of their own for the girls to hand in each week. They say it has helped them alot. Illona ------------------------------ From: "LESTER, CHARLES (LNG)" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:23:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Report Cards We probably don't need to keep this thread going, but I just can't resist any more. :-) I will preface my comments with the following. I am not an instructor, merely a Gup :-) So I don't know what it's like to teach TKD students. However, I did get my degree in education (very rusty now :-), and I am a parent. My wife substituted for special ed teachers all the time, and then went on to teach LD students at a Christian school. Some of the students she taught, who had previously never gotten higher than a D, started getting A's and B's, not because she was more lenient on the kids, but because (1) she taught to their strengths, teaching each of them in the ways each student learned best (auditory, kinesthetic, etc) and (2) she used punishments and rewards that were effective for the individual student (i.e., she knew each student individually, and knew each student's particular hot buttons, pressure points if you will, since this is a TKD list :-). This background being said, my first comment on the thread is that at every school (grade school, high school, the academic variety of schools) I attended, if you didn't have a passing grade in every subject, you didn't have any extracurricular activities. The school wouldn't let you, and my parents certainly wouldn't. I don't see why a dojang couldn't or shouldn't apply the same principle, based on an assessment of the individual student. When my son was going through high school, if he was REALLY interested in TKD, I would have used that as an incentive for him to keep his grades up. That being said, there were still things we permitted him to do, even when he didn't have the grades, that were important in giving him a good self image. I think parents need to and should use every tool at their disposal in raising children into responsible adults. Part of that is learning that there are consequences to every action. Often times the only way children learn this is by finding out the hard way. For some students, I am sure that they keep their grades up because their dojang will not let them test if they're failing. I am also sure that sometimes they learn this the hard way. Bottom line to these ramblings: I think, when it is a stated part of the policy ahead of time, it is perfectly acceptable for a Dojang to review report cards, and not allow students to test f they're not passing their academic subjects. Even LD students can do amazingly well with the correct incentives. If a parent feels their student should test anyway, well, parents talk to teachers and administrators in public schools all the time, why not in the dojang? My two cents..... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:37:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #204 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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