From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #212 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 31 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 212 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: What day you become Master. the_dojang: Re: the boycott' bites another one the_dojang: Titles the_dojang: Very Funny the_dojang: Receiving the First Black Belt the_dojang: RE: Master the_dojang: the 'boycott' bites another one the_dojang: TKD-net the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #211 the_dojang: Martial Science list the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #211 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:06:38 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: What day you become Master. Jeff, I am going to tell you something that a lot of ppl will tell you. You have become Master or Grandmaster a looong time before the title of Master was given to you. Just by your personality. Your humility, your friendliness, your realization that all ppl should be treated as you would like to be treated has brought you that title. I know you hate the title and it makes me respect and like you more. You are wonderful Jeff. Never lose that. Donna - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:45:18 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: the boycott' bites another one > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:52:49 PST > Subject: the_dojang: the 'boycott' bites another one > > FYI, > > With Judy's permission I forward this note, from a former member of this > very list, to y'all. Ya know, I used to think this was sad, but at this > point (some 3 years later) it is almost funny. No need to say more, the > attached speaks volumes... I am sorry to the persons who are still friends with this man from tkd.net. I had been friends with him too and still care about him. I think his time would be better spent doing the good things that are said about him and stop wasting his time making himself look bad. I once believed what he said about this list. He lied or I have seen no proof of what has ever been said. If these ppl who lurk on here chose to live in fear of repercussions go ahead. Or be brave and find out just what this man is like if you post on here. I did not myself get the repercussion. I am a small fry in a different federation. Still tkd but does not do the things that most do. I left the list after I was sick and tired of the crap (yes Ray, I swore.) he put out in public. Donna - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:07:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Titles The topic of titles is interesting to say the least... When I tested for my 3rd Dan, I literally felt like a 1st. 12 years later I tested for my 4th. I had finally become comfortable with my 3rd Dan rank and trained hard for 2 years to prepare for my 4th Dan. By the time my test rolled around, I felt like I had progressed and matured to the point of earning my 4th Dan. I am very satisfied and comfortable with my 4th Dan as I continue to train and instruct. 4th Dan is "Officially" considered a "Junior Master". Though I never considered myself to be anything close to a Master, I am often referred to as Junior Master Farral by not only the Grand Master, but the Master Ranks and lower belts as well. I must admit, the first time I was called that, I was taken back a bit as I never thought of myself as being of that quality. I also felt a sense of pride at achieving something so few ever achieve and feeling like I had just advanced to the ranks of the " Near Elite". I am not much on titles with the exception of using them as a sign of respect and courtesy towards others...if, in my opinion, deserved . I refer to Masters as Master and Grand Masters as Grand Master. As for myself, I accept the title of Junior Master, but Mister (yes... I am a guy...fooled lots of you...didn't I?) or Sabum Nim is perfectly fine for me. However, I do correct people when they refer to me as Master. I will tell them it's Junior Master, but Mr. is fine, leaving the choice up to them. I, like many of you, have come across self-proclaimed and self-promoted Masters and Grand Masters. I am not impressed, but will grant them their ego by using their titles in reference to them. Often times, if I am very unimpressed or unsure of their status, I will simply refer to them by their full name when talking of them but not to them. I will use their title when talking to them directly...Courtesy! Bottom line, what you do with your title is completely up to you and how you perceive yourself. If you perceive yourself to be a Master or Grand Master, then so be it. Perhaps your abilities are of such that earn you the title and the respect to go along with it. For those of you who simply grant yourself the title, I caution you to look inside yourself and perform a self test of you who are. Have you trained hard? Have you taught well? Have you taught others to become good if not great martial artists in the footsteps of your Master or Grand Master? Have you matured? Are you a better person than you were the day before? Are you someone your students and other martial artists can look up to and admire, whether it be for your abilities, your knowledge, your personality, your outlook on life, or just your humility? I have never placed a high importance on titles unless the person that bears that title can live up to it. I have met many who do just that...and many who don't. As for me..."Officially" I am Junior Master Farral by rank...unofficially...I am just me...a TKD student and instructor. Take it for what it is worth. I will be eligible for my 5th Dan test in two years...will I be ready for a Master Rank?...At this point I am not sure...I only hope by the time the test comes around that I have matured and grown in knowledge and ability to be worthy of the rank of Master...If not...it may be another 12 years!!! Pil Seung The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: Joan Bostic Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:13:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Very Funny <> A little misguided, I'd say. I hate to tell you Mr. or Ms. Lurker, but (at a minimum) I would bet that most of us at least open the message and peruse the subject lines to see if we're interested. I've read or scanned most every issue. You should go "back home" and do as well with your own group, and quit worrying about this one. Joan Bostic ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:30:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Receiving the First Black Belt Here's a question for you black belts.... I was wondering if some of you (or all of you) would share your experience when you received your first black belt (1st Dan). What were you thinking? Were you scared, filled with ego (be honest!), hesitant, proud, or unsure whether you deserved it? In Tang Soo Do, I'm "only" light green (4th out of 15 belts in our system). I've often thought about the day I receive my black belt, and I wonder what will be going through my head. I know the black belt is really only a statement that I've completed the basics, but there is a lot of social respect around the receiving of a black belt. I'm suspecting I'll most likely feel rather hesitant about it. I'd love to hear from all of you! Pilseung! Morgan ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:09:19 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Master Greetings all. I have a couple of questions/comments on the master title issue. I am a 4th dan in ITF taekwon-do. (I also turn 44 years old this year.) I have been training with the ITF for 12 (almost 13) years and I have several more years with another organization. I was offered a 5th and master title by another TKD instructor/organization. I didn't feel that a master title was deserved after so few years in the art. In the ITF the soonest a person can earn the master title is at 7th dan. Under the rules of the USTF (and I think ITF) it takes some where in the neighborhood of 25 years of continious training to reach 7th dan; longer if you earn a 1st dan as a teen or child. (I know some have gone faster - we can get a whole thread going about politics in the MAs!) My concern is reading in the mags about some 25 year old kid being promoted to master. How can they have the MA experience, let alone the life experience, to deserve the title master? The folks that I see on this list that have been refered to as Master are the ones that have put in years of training. They have also contributed greatly to their arts. You all have my upmost respect and adminration for your achievements. My own instructor is being told that he will grade for 7th dan sometime in the next year and a half. He is not to happy with having to accept the title master but is looking forward to his "last" test! In my own case I have about 15 years before I can even think about testing for master. The more I progress, the more I teach, the more I study other aspects of my art and other arts, the more I realize that I have just started to become a martial artist. Taekwon Robert Martin A-4-336/USTF/ITF ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:16:40 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: the 'boycott' bites another one First of all I want to thank and apologize to Mr. Terry. I thank him for his time and efforts in producing this list and for helping me out with my own list. I apologize for my previous misconceptions of him due to believing the hype from one of the leaders of the other list. It was due to Alain Burrese's testimony of what a nice guy Mr. Terry was, that I started to communicate with him. Through that I found out what a generous person he was as well. I to was kicked off the other list due to posting to DD. However, I need to thank them for that move. If not, I would have never been motivated to start my own list Martial Science and Arts (quick plug). It was through the influence of my instructors as well as Mr. Terry that I have kept the list going. So please, for those who lurk due to believing the rumors spread by another person, stand up grow some balls and make a stand. If you want to post, then post. Never hesitate due to fear of being kicked off another list. Stand for something or fall for anything. Your choice. Jeremy MS&A ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:20:45 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: TKD-net <<. I really never believed any of the threads that ran all 3 lists about being kicked off of tkd-net for posting elsewhere, as I couldn't believe real martial artists would behave so childishly. >> I'm living proof that it does happen. I think it is so funny, that as much as Glenn hates this list, he reads it too :-) Hi Glenn. Mac X-TKD-Net club ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:18:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #211 In a message dated 3/31/00 1:03:08 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Sometimes when you deal with the martial art/TKD community, they can be VERY rank oriented. I have on occasion introduced myself as "Rick Foley" to have the other person, usually 10 years my junior, reply "I'm MASTER Queeblat". >> Some people - I run into that all the time - then they have to come to get my signature on something - attitudes change when they want something. Going off on a tangent - another anecdote - This young man had told me for months how everyone needed to work together - both cultural communities in my state. He told me about his tournament. The day of his tournament, I was exhausted forma ll the traveling I had been doing last fall, but I arrived and immediately got beset by people I knew. The tournament Director Sun - saw me and said hi and to come in - that was the total some of my conversation with him. When he opening ceremonies he introduced every 1st dan from here to kingdomcome - but guess who he didn't introduce. I didn't care - he was embarrassed I was there as the former OK State president was there also and he was sucking up. Later several of the "American" masters went to him and told him how out of line he was not to introduce the OK State president. Michael told them that he had asked me and I had said I didn't want to be introduced. I didn't care - - but boy did this cause a stink in the state. An umber of instructors are now boycotting his next tournament as they feel he showed his true colors when push came to shove. In the end, Michael proved his point to everyone - only in a way he never expected. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:26:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Martial Science list > I to was kicked off the other list due to posting to DD. However, I > need to thank them for that move. If not, I would have never been > motivated to start my own list Martial Science and Arts (quick plug). Folks, this is a fine list. Be sure to check it out. Ray ------------------------------ From: "Mary Bubenzer" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:53:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #211 Can anyone recommend a Dojang in the Madison, Wisconsin area? I practice Hapkido in Cleveland, and we are relocating this summer. I want to find a school quickly so my training is not interrupted. Thank you! Mary ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:53:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #212 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.