From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #213 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 31 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 213 In this issue: the_dojang: Master the_dojang: Master title the_dojang: Re: the 'boycott' bites another one the_dojang: Re: other list the_dojang: Fwd: (no subject) the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #212 the_dojang: Martial Science List the_dojang: The "Master" term the_dojang: First Dan Testing the_dojang: Update and one tough 90 year old [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HKDTodd@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:33:40 EST Subject: the_dojang: Master I have trained with different Master's and Grandmaster's and I have found that It is just a title given for experience and knowlege. The problem is that this is not the criteria for all Martial Arts organizations. I have seen people that have trained for 20 to 30 years that do not deserve to be called Master and I have seen others that have trained 10 to 15 years that are truely Master level teachers and practitioners. I am sure we all know of those that paid the fee and got the pretty piece of paper but when it comes to what they know, they fall misirably short of Master or Grandmaster. Todd ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:40:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Master title I find it interesting that 2 masters wrote nearly identical posts concerning their title. Their humble attitude is a hallmark of truly great people in any field (masters, if you will.) From the perspective of a student the title is somewhat different (at least as I see it). I watched the man (Mister Joe Felke) that is the master of the Dojang I attend test for his fifth degree (Which, in our style, is master). I have known him for decades and trained with him for the last 6 years, and I am sure that he would view the master title in much the same way as Grand master West and Master Sweet. He may call himself whatever he likes, but to me, his student, he is Master. And I am certain beyond any doubt and with no personal knowledge of either of these men, that to their students they are Masters. They may feel uncomfortable with the title, but they surely deserve it and their students undoubtedly take considerable pride in their Masters knowledge, skill, and humble attitude. You gentlemen may not want the accolades, or the title, but you do DESERVE them. Thanks for listening, Dave Weller, Student (WTF TKD) “Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself.” Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: sarah@home-school.com (Sarah Pride) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:09:28 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: the 'boycott' bites another one > But like we said earlier, good luck with your future martial arts endeavors, > and we hope that you enjoy DD, the list that 99% of its members delete > without opening as soon as it hits their mailbox, 99% of the time. Wow! That's so cool! We're in the 100th percentile, guys! Mr. Terry must have a heck of a lot of members on this list, if all of us make up only 1% of the readers! - -Sarah Pride- Still a wee 16-yr-old 8th gup, but working on it. P.S. Children's self-esteem is more hardy than you would think. I say, success of the report-card plan is what's important. All those MA teachers who run report-card programs seem to do so successfully. Since this is so, I would say the evidence shows that it _does_ work. Equally, any other policies that have been tested over time would logically seem to work. Too bad I can't say much more, since I'm homeschooled and not a parent. :) ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:04:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: other list In a message dated 3/31/00 7:07:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'm living proof that it does happen. I think it is so funny, that as much as Glenn hates this list, he reads it too :-) >> lol....my thoughts exactly. :) melinda ex-tkd netter ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply - business page http://hometown.aol.com/chajonshim/ma4sale.html Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:51:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Fwd: (no subject) OK, Hi everybody my name is Cory Im a 2nd dan in taekwondo and a 1st dan in Karate. and have trained imensly in the Filipino arts of Kali and some JeetKuneDo. My problem is this.. My TaeKwonDo instructor and I had a falling out about 2months ago. Over an incident I felt he should not of done. He had me spar against a 11 year old child. Im 27 years old. That was not the ordeal actually the 11 year old was sparring way too hard with me, and me as a black belt, I know how to use control and I spared lightly with him.. Now this young boy was hitting my in the face and busted my lip and was acting like he was trying to literally hurt me. I held my temper the thing is that is totally uncalled for in our school. When we spar their is no face contact unless black belts are sparring each other. I felt he should of stoped the young man and told him to settle down as I did. and I got in trouble for it. The parents of the child had to actually stop the sparring match. I dont know exactly what was the reason for this outburst and honestly I dont care. He didnt hurt me physically but upset me that he didnt stop once I told him too. And my instructor who calls himself a MASTER didnt either. I talked to him about it and he said that he told the child to take all he had out on me. I felt that to be wrong. I dont know any one have any feed back on that? Since then I stopped training under him due to he has been training alot different than he has been in the past. I feel he has a personal problem with me cause I no longer wanted to Kickbox and want to pursue a teaching career. And he says he is cool with the Idea. But when I come back to class or something he gives me a cold shoulder and barely speaks 2words to me. And he knows he has nothing to rip me on because I am the Ideal student and all of the other classmates like me alot and I get calls wondering when im coming back... I want to pursue my dreams and teach the martial arts. Do you think a 2nd dan is to early to teach? and What do I do now to keep advancing up the dan ranks? also im curious does a 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, dan etc.... really make a differnce in teaching? to me all it is is a diffent number and maybe a name change in front of yours... But imlike so much of you who probably would not be comfortably with the Master in front of my name... I've trained hard and studied hard the past 16 years to obtain all the knowledge in the Martial Arts I know.. Which to me is a scratch on the board compared to others... But honestly all my tkd instructor could teach me past this level is Forms ,, which is great I am very confused in what I should do.. If u have any helpful feed back please help me... 2nd dan Cory ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:13:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #212 Morgan Kochel Wrote in a post Here's a question for you black belts.... I was wondering if some of you (or all of you) would share your experience when you received your first black belt (1st Dan). What were you thinking? Were you scared, filled with ego (be honest!), hesitant, proud, or unsure whether you deserved it? Morgan, Here are some my thoughts on first dan testing. (for what they are worth) 1. Scared. Not really, terrified was more like it. I have horrible testing anxiety, and have had ever since my white belt test. 2. I was thinking that if only REAL oxygen would get into my lungs during the jumping kicks section, that I might survive. I felt bad for the other testers because I was sure I was hogging their oxygen, but really didn't care, my survival seemed of the utmost importance. 3. Ego? Honestly I feel like a 5th gup. Could not for the life of me figure out what I was doing standing up there with all those "real" black belts. More like anti ego in this case. Felt like a bug fixing to get crushed. 4. Hesitant? Good lord in heaven, YES !!!! 5. Proud? I felt proud when I received my belt some weeks after the test. Darn proud! Never thought I'd get it. Still don't think I'm worthy, but it gives me something to strive for. Good luck on your journey, it's one worth traveling! Dave Weller Student (WTF TKD) ěPractice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself.î Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Howard Wilson Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:26:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Martial Science List Jeremy or Ray (or anyone else that can help), I know when you first started the Martial Science list you posted how to sign up. Silly me did not do it then and was wondering if you would repost the info so those of us that did not sign up then can now!! Thanks, Howard Wilson ATA http://w3.one.net/~howard ps to Ray sorry about that first try I just upgraded netscape and still learning!! > I to was kicked off the other list due to posting to DD. However, I > need to thank them for that move. If not, I would have never been > motivated to start my own list Martial Science and Arts (quick plug). Folks, this is a fine list. Be sure to check it out. Ray ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:28:47 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: The "Master" term I agree with what some of the others have said on this topic. Even though you reach levels at which your organization or others consider you a "master", I'm not sure that I know anyone who has ever felt that they *were* a master or have *mastered* their arts. Kind of like "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" type thing. Many years ago, I used to think of a 5th Dan as a "master" level. In my organization, you are considered (and called) "master" at a 4th Dan level. I'm not sure I agree with that, but that is how my organization does it (and gives you a fancy belt to prove it ). I very seldom sign my name with the title "Master" except in more official capacities. It's just more of a title that comes with the rank, nothing I would ever have given myself. For an easy to remember e-mail address, I used it there because that is what students and others called me and it made it easy to remember. I have a private address that I use when not conversing with other martial artists, and yet another in my capacity as a computer geek in systems management in a corporate environment. (I know, I confuse the heck out of myself sometimes....) You can't get hung up on titles or ranks. It's skill and knowledge that counts. The "Master" title or level is not so much for you, but for your students. They see you as Master, they believe you are Master, and they can be proud to call you Master, even if you don't feel that way yourself. So even though some of us have over 20-30 years experience, yet do not feel like a "Master" and haven't come close to mastering our own arts, think about the new students with less than a year of experience. In their eyes, yes, you are truly a Master, their teacher. Of course when ever I attend a seminar..... I feel pretty stupid and insignificant. Many times I wish others there didn't already know me, and I would have went in wearing a white belt. But luckily for me, the others I worked out with aren't hung up on belts and titles, and treat me with respect and understanding that I am a novice in their dojang/art and work with me a such. The only other time I've worried about rank is when I think about my students and being able to promote them to a higher level. It can be hard to help others grow if you are not growing yourself. After I received my "Master" belt, I did reflect a bit on what I knew (or didn't know). It actually gave me more drive to live up to that title so I would feel more like I deserved it. Eventually, you can become more comfortable with it. At each new level, I didn't always feel comfortable with it or that I completely deserved it. By the time you begin to accept it, it can change again and you go through the whole process again. I get to where I feel good about my rank until I meet another with the same or lower rank that I feel blows me away. I feel like hiding for a while when that happens and caused me to re-think and question where I am again. It's all a never ending quest, a journey of self-improvement. Life if too short not to enjoy every moment of the trip. Along the way you meet many others, some that help you, some you are helping on their journey. I find it very fulfilling to help others find their "way", and in return, it keeps me on my path. Life is what you make of it, "Master" will be what you make of that too. Sorry for the long ramble.... I'm full, happy and relaxed after a good lunch - beautiful cool day - rode on my bike to lunch (no, I don't peddle). Too bad I just had to come back to work :-( Yours in the arts, Mac (with the gaudy belt) ------------------------------ From: David Weller Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:24:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: First Dan Testing Morgan Kochel Wrote in a post Here's a question for you black belts.... I was wondering if some of you (or all of you) would share your experience when you received your first black belt (1st Dan). What were you thinking? Were you scared, filled with ego (be honest!), hesitant, proud, or unsure whether you deserved it? Morgan, Here are some of my thoughts on first dan testing) (for what they are worth). 1. Scared. Not really, terrified was more like it. I have horrible testing anxiety, and have had ever since my white belt test. 2. I was thinking that if only REAL oxygen would get into my lungs during the jumping kicks section, that I might survive. I felt bad for the other testers because I was sure I was hogging their oxygen, but really didn't care, my survival seemed of the utmost importance. 3. Ego? Honestly I feel like a 5th gup. Could not for the life of me figure out what I was doing standing up there with all those "real" black belts. More like anti ego in this case. Felt like a bug fixing to get crushed. 4. Hesitant? Good lord in heaven, YES !!!! 5. Proud? I felt proud when I received my belt some weeks after the test. Darn proud! Never thought I'd get it. Still don't think I'm worthy, but it gives me something to strive for. Good luck on your journey, it's one worth traveling! Dave Weller Student (WTF TKD) Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself. Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:49:36 EST Subject: the_dojang: Update and one tough 90 year old Greetings everyone, No, I have not dropped of the face of the planet, though at times in the last two months I've wished that. I have not posted much lately, but I have enjoyed some of the things I have read. (I quickly try and read through the list each day) Law school assignments have really picked up this semester, and the 8 classes I'm in have kept me hopping. I definitely cannot wait for school to be over. For those who know about my fiance Yi Saeng, let me inform you that all the paperwork has been done, and she was granted a fiance visa a few weeks ago. Two weeks ago I bought her a plane ticket, and she will be here in Montana on April 28th. (Actually I will pick her up in Spokane, WA on the 28th and we will come back to Montana on the 29th.) Right now we are planning on a June 24th wedding near the Clark Fork River. It is a beautiful spot of land on the river front that is owned by family, near Thompson Falls where my Father lives and I went to High School. Besides this, I have been working on setting up some seminars. I have most of the informational material about ready, and will post later how anyone interested can receive this, and maybe we can set something up. Then, to top everything off, just when I thought I'd get caught up during Spring Break, my grandfather had a heart attack. He is 90 years old, and had his first heart attack and triple bypass surgery in the early 80s. He blew a hole out in the one chamber of the heart. When the doctor was explaining things to me and my uncle, he said he had only seen this a couple times in the last 12 years, because it usually kills you right away. My grandfather actually drove himself to the hospital after having the heart attack. When the doctor was explaining things, he said my grandfather's chance of survival without surgery was zero and he would die in a matter of days. If they transferred him to another hospital for surgery, his chance was still very low. He said on a fifty year old man the mortality rate would be 50-60% and on someone 90 years old it was very slim chance. My grandfather was aware of all of this, and he is the one that said, lets try the surgery and see. The Helena doctor had to convince the surgeons in Billings to take him and perform it, since when they saw the tests and his age they didn't think he could make it. Well, they had the surgery 9 days ago, and are hoping to move him back to Helena this weekend. He has proved the doctors wrong and is doing better than they expected. It is still too soon to tell just how things will go, but things now are looking a lot better than they were a couple weeks ago. I tell you all this, because it does show what a person can do if they don't give up. My grandfather is a fighter, and he just won't quit. I'm hoping that me telling him to get better so he can meet Yi Saeng helped. Before they moved him to Billings I was over there and told him he had three months to get better so he could be at the wedding June 24th. The next day when I went in, he said, "June 24th, right?" That's the kind of attitude to have, even though doctors are saying the worst. Another good thing was that my sister came up from California and my grandfather got to see his great grandson for the first time, the day before they moved him for surgery. So that was good. And I got to finally see my nephew. So, I've been going back and forth, and trying to help my grandmother a lot. It has been rough on her naturally. But things are looking a lot better now than they were a couple weeks ago, so I thought I'd share a happy story and a motivational one. We should all live to 90, still call the shots, and never give up. I did receive some bad news yesterday, and I will be making a post this weekend regarding that, and asking for everyone's help with it. But that will be later, for now, I'll just say I hope everyone on the list is well. Yours in Training Alain Burrese http://members.aol.com/aburrese/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #213 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.