From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #217 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 2 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 217 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The "other" guy the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #216 the_dojang: Re: First Black Belt Test Re: the_dojang: pandora's box the_dojang: Sin Moo Hapkido seminar w/GM Ji the_dojang: Re: Master Hodder and Pandora's Box the_dojang: Re: For Mr. Iris= Turn the other cheek philosophy ? the_dojang: Re: For Master Hilland=the brief lowdown on list wars the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #205 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IntlKido@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:00:54 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The "other" guy Ray wrote... << Perhaps we can never be friends again, but at least we don't have to be enemies... >> Nice gesture, but as many of us who've had run-in's with him know... once you make his black list, you're on it forever - no matter how wrong he is. His world is no fun for him otherwise. Hi Glenn. Mike Burnett Shin Koo Hapkido Yoo-Sok-Kwan http://members.aol.com/intlkido/hapkido.html ------------------------------ From: "Dorota Konecky" Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:39:52 PST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #216 Hello list members, Another reader/lurker to be heard from. I am a newly minted, 38 year old (4 months ago) 1st degree. Honestly, I have not sorted out how I felt. I worked like heck preparing. 6 days/week, 3-4 hours/day for a year. This was part of my recovery from an auto accident that caused a back injury serious to take more than 2 years to fully recover from. I guess I looked at it as a demonstration and tried not to focus on the "test" aspect. The biggest problem was breath control. I found that the kicking patterns can wind you if you breathe improperly. (No, I have not figured out how to breathe properly.) The test went on and on. Maybe I warmed up too much, but by the end of the test, when I had to do my breaks, my blood sugar dropped so low that I was shaking. Needless to say, my recollections of the day are somewhat hazy. I do remember the next day when Sabumnim called me at work and told me that he was proud of me and that he felt that I exhibit the traits that a black belt should. Later, when I looked at the videotape, I have to admit disappointment in my performance. There were a couple small errors. Oh, well. There is always 2d degree. (After 4 months, the belt still looks funny) Hope this helps Neal Konecky 1st Dan, WTF ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:26:48 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re: First Black Belt Test >From: Morgan Kochel >Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 12:34:19 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: First Black Belt Test >I've never seen a black belt test in my school, but I was surprised >to >hear you have to do pushups and situps as part of the test! Is >this >common? Actually, I just meant that those were some of the things I did to get ready for the test. No actual push-ups or sit-ups were required for the test. >Any reason why they give temporary black belts? I don't believe my >school >does that, though I'm not sure. Once you pass the test, >doesn't that mean >you've earned the "real thing"? The temporary belt is awarded in recognition of the testee doing a good job. Results are tallied after the test and are privately gone over with the instructor in about a week. They are quite in depth and there are analyses of every part of the test (patterns, basic techniques, flying kicks, step sparring, semi free sparring, free sparring, breaking, self defense, terminology). At the next testing (about two months later) the permanent belt is awarded signifying passing in every area and having gone over the results with the instructor so you have an idea what you need to improve on. Awarding a temp BB also allows the testee to correct any portion of the test they didn't do so well on. If there were any portions of the test that they did not pass (ex.: failing one of their breaks) they will have to perform the failed area for the instructor in class over the next couple of weeks. While my instructor pre-tests everyone before they actually take the promotional test there are sometimes when you just blow it. I have seen a few people have to redo a break or two over the years. >>Another thing that kept me humble was the next class I went to. I >> >>suddenly couldn't do reverse roundhouse kick! I'd only known them >>for >>a couple of years at the time. For some reason that night those >>kicks, >>and some other techniques, gave me a bit of trouble. It was >>a reminder >>that I was a black belt not God. So was the fact that I >>still had to mow >>the lawn, take out the garbage, etc. Curses! ;) >Awww. You didn't get the boots and red cape like another poster >talked >about? ;-) :-) I can completely sympathize, though. The >BB is really >"built up" in our culture as if it's the end-all of >training. Sometimes I >dislike the idea of ranks all together. Indeed. Many of the Koreans I have met have been like "so what" when we discussed rank and I told them I was a black belt. Maybe this was because they were about 7th or 8th dan, though ;-). Disliking ranks is something I have toyed with, too. But I have trained in a system that doesn't use rank signifiers (Praying Mantis Kung Fu) and there are similar problems there too. Everyone in class has a good idea of where everyone is skill wise but the important thing is seniority in the art. This can annoy people who have more physical prowess than their seniors to no end sometimes. A very good friend of mine is the Dai Sihing (Older Brother) of the class and his instructor's right hand man. Luckily he has the skills to back up the title. >>I honestly think those things helped me realize that I was still >>just >>me. You promote in rank not to being a superman. This doesn't >>mean you >>don't grow as a person but you ARE still a person. It was >>a great lesson >>that I will never forget. >Thank you for sharing that with us! It's nice to know you black >belts are >human, too. ;-) Shh, don't let on you know. Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:27:03 -0600 Subject: Re: the_dojang: pandora's box > At the the risk of opening another Pandora's box. When did learning, > teaching, or being involved with the martial arts become an extra curricular > activity, instead of a life long pursuit of knowledge? > Just a question, > Rich For me it's not, and I expect that most people on this list feel the same way (or else they'd spend their time doing something other than enthusiastically debating things about school policies). I think it's a reality, though, that for at least half (I'd guess a lot more than that) of the people taking martial arts classes, they don't see it as a lifelong pursuit of knowledge and improvement (or hopefully they just don't see it that way yet). I bet there would be a lot of schools that wouldn't be able to pay the rent if it weren't for people that were interested in it as an extracurricular activity and not much more. Seems to me that while these people may be missing out on some deeper meanings and benefits, that in itself isn't a direct problem for the others. The people that are called to "the martial way" (stealing from Mr. Forrest Morgan here) will seperate themselves and hold themselves to a higher standard and still be able to move towards gaining the deeper benefits. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:20:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Sin Moo Hapkido seminar w/GM Ji FYI... Sin Moo Hapkido seminar with DoJu/Grandmaster Han-jae JI. June 25 - June 30 (6 days) Voorhees, New Jersey $500 New Sin Moo HKD personalized doboks provided at minimal cost (~$35) (send in your name as you want it to appear along with dobok size needed) DoJu JI will be filming for his new set of Hapkido videotapes and his new Hapkido book. I'll provide more info as I get it. To register and/or pay for the seminar contact: DoJu JI, Han-jae World Sin Moo Hapkido Association 20 Waverly Place Trenton, New Jersey 08609 Phone: 609-588-4757 It would really be great to spend a little mat time with y'all... Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:07:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master Hodder and Pandora's Box Master Hodder queried: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:32:49 PST Subject: the_dojang: pandora's box At the the risk of opening another Pandora's box. When did learning, teaching, or being involved with the martial arts become an extra curricular activity, instead of a life long pursuit of knowledge? Just a question, Rich> Response: It can be both. However, when you have a family,home, and career, you have to support those endeavors. I admire those individuals who can teach full time and pursue their life long love on a full time basis. However, many others have to prioritize their respective lives. Your question is a good one though. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:18:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: For Mr. Iris= Turn the other cheek philosophy ? Mr. Iris stated, in part: From: "Keith F. Iris, Jr. MSE, NCC" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:44:53 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Respect - a lesson learned It's interesting to see periodically, the postings slamming other listowners. One thing that I learned early on from my first teacher was respect. I may not approve of things other blackbelts do or say, but there is no need for me to get involved in gossip or slander. > Response: Interesting thoughts. Sort of reminds me of growing up in Ozone Park, New York and attending St. Elizabeth's Catholic Church. Yes, on Sunday I would hear those type of thoughts. But, from Monday through Saturday-- I had to deal with the harsh realities of not getting my rear end kicked. Often, I wanted to join the monastery. I wanted to walk that line of being pure and serene. I wanted to reach Nirvana and respect all living creatures. One day I woke up and garnered my own philosophy. For example, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Sometimes you have to show force to prevent force (evil) from taking over. Similarly, if you have the TKD list bashing the honorable Mr. Ray Terry, must we turn the other cheek and show respect ? Or should I or other readers point out that to earn respect you must treat others with respect. Until other list "owners" treat Mr. Terry with respect I will continue to "slam" and jam. You know it reminds me of that expression I heard in a Vietnam movie, "Napalm...it reminds me of victory in the morning..." Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:35:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: For Master Hilland=the brief lowdown on list wars Master Hilland stated: Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:27:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: distribution list << Yes, you posted on Dojang Digest, a list that we are boycotting due to the unethical behavior of DD's owner, Ray Terry. We have no objection to you reading DD, however, we frown on supporting that list through posts....>> I found it odd that within hours of making the same post on both tkd-net and DD I simply stopped rec'v the tkd-net digest. I guess I now know why. I would not know Ray or Glenn if we met without an introduction. I know nothing of these two gentlemen. But I am here because we all have something in common, that is also why I was posting here, on tkd-net, Jeremy's group and the instructors group. I find the statement "...a list that [we] are boycotting...", well actually the word 'we', is very vague here. Interesting behavior. Jere> Response: I know that Mr. Terry is an honorable man. Hence, he would not lower himself and try to explain the rationale behind the list war between Dojang Digest and TKD list. I won't provide all the sordid facts. But, I can tell you the following in a nutshell. The TKD list owners originally posted on the Dojang Digest which was one of the first martial arts lists. Due to a disagreement a parting of the ways occurred. Thereafter, the two or three individuals who left Dojang Digest formed the TKD list. The TKD list originators, a notably zealous lot, decided to keep the war going. In their minds, if they recruited individuals away from the Dojang Digest this would result in the Dojang Digest "drying up" and going away. However, the one main personality on the TKD list let his own personality and ego maniac behavior slow that process down. In fact, many people now post to the Dojang Digest since they are not harassed, they are free to post thoughts, and are not subjected to dictatorial "boycotting" philosophies. Periodically, the TKD list banishes people from their list when they discover that their members want to post to other lists. The behavior is easily explainable. Stick around, you will piece it together for yourself. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 05:24:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #205 In a message dated 3/29/00 9:06:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Ken McD.. >> Mr. McD, To my observation, It seems that, at least for a while after joining a dojang, a child may work harder and behave better for (to make a good impression upon?) their Sabomnim, than for their Mom or dad. Of course this violates the taekwondo philosophy demanding obedience to one's parents, but the reality here is that it does happen. I am curious here? Do you argue it would be wrong for a caring instructor or master to direct this child's eagerness to please his/her master to work on, say, improving the child's behavior ["Vinny or Hymie?" or Mary or Mo'eshia, or Anatoly or Ackbar?] or attention to schoolwork? SESilz ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #217 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.