From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #224 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 5 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 224 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Songahm Translation the_dojang: Re: atrium society the_dojang: breath control the_dojang: Re: Songahm the_dojang: Re: normal the_dojang: Songahm the_dojang: Hwa Rang the_dojang: Hawrang pattern the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #223 the_dojang: Re: Hawrang pattern the_dojang: Re: Master L. Dorsey the_dojang: Hwarang the_dojang: RE: Breath Control Approach the_dojang: Rapid Advancement the_dojang: Buddhism and Consciousness the_dojang: Re: The Future of Hapkido the_dojang: Normal?!! the_dojang: Re: Women's Self Defence the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #223 the_dojang: Re: Songahm and other things the_dojang: Updated web page the_dojang: Taekwondo Dagger Form [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ATATKD@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:39:07 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Songahm Translation In a message dated 4/5/00 10:33:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Hi! Does anyone know what the translation for Songahm is? This is the set of forms taught by the A.T.A. >> I translates to "Pine Tree Temple" Regards Joe ATA #1 - Long Island, NY ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:45:09 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: atrium society In a message dated 4/5/00 7:33:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << www.atriumsoc.org >> hi jose, i just checked it out....looks good. and someone who was asking for kids books (was it silke?) might like the "ancient warrior" book they have for children. melinda ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html www.Chajonshim.com Martial Arts Supply check out our adidas auctions on ebay! up to half the price of the other guys! Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: Arthur Lee <7akl3@qlink.queensu.ca> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:02:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: breath control >>>I found this advise valuable and I strive for similar breath control in my practice of forms. But for your interest, allow me to share a contradictory experience. I was practicing my form with a 9th Dan Korean TKD Master. I was exhaling audibly with the execution of each technique. He chastised me for this, and told me that while my breath should be controlled in this way, it should not be audible. If it is audible, he said, an opponent could know when you have exhaled and thus when you are due to inhale, and then time an attack to hit you when you are inhaling, which would make a blow to your chest or abdomen much more damaging if not lethal. I wonder what others would say to this. Jose' <<<< Hey jose, I've heard the same thing, but what we do is keep our mouths shut and do dahn jon breathing, breathing with your abdomen rather than your chest as breathing with/heaving your chest gives your opponent an advantage, a killing advantage (I take Hae Dong Gumdo, Korean sword martial art), so it's strongly advised that when you breath... try to minimize the extra movement of your chest, and don't show your opponent any of your weak spots. Arthur ------------------------------ From: Brett Erwin Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:53:03 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Songahm Songahm, depending on who you ask, means: Pine Tree Temple, Pine Tree Rock, or Pine Tree Cell "pine tree" is symbolic in that TKD is a skill that is always with you, much like a pine tree stays green. The tree is strong and solid. The other term, whichever one you choose, symbolizes a basic foundation. The "rock" is a foundation on which many things are built, the "cell" is the basic foundation of life. I don't know about "temple". This is why the 1st 5 forms of the Songahm system are called "Songahm 1-5". After that, new names are introduced. - - Brett Erwin ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:54:05 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: normal In a message dated 4/5/00 7:33:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Hello from Normal, Illinois... Yes, Normal, Illinois... :) >> ah, yes...reminds me of that great movie "leaving normal". crazy, but really makes you think. melinda ChunjiDo -pe rsonal homepage http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html www.Chajonshim.com Martial Arts Supply check out our adidas auctions on ebay! up to half the price of the other guys! Paidforsurf.com - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! Looking for enlightenment is like looking for a flashlight, when all you need the flashlight for is to find the flashlight. ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:05:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Songahm From: burdickd <> Hey Dankin, long time no talk to. The Songahm is the style of the ATA, and I believe means "Pine Tree"? I bet Paul Rogers knows the answer. Mac ------------------------------ From: mctague@worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:07:43 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Hwa Rang > Hawrang pattern...What is this? >Is this an advanced or Black Belt Pattern? > I know what the Hawrangdo codes are but am not >familiar the pattern. Hwa Rang's an ITF pattern normally taught around the 3 Gup. Joel ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:12:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hawrang pattern From: CA&B Skjold <> Hello Ann. HwaRang is a 1st or 2nd gup pattern in ITF style TKD in the Chang Hon form set. I've even seen this form adapted and used in the Zen Do Kai system, and I've known some TSD schools who did it too. I first learned it in a TSD dojang back in '77, and some Shorin Ryu folks were doing it also. I'm not sure why so many of these other schools did it too. Now that I think about it, it is probably about the only Chang Hon patter I can remember.... Mac ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:26:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #223 Mister Choi, I really appreciate your post below. Being a member of the ITF, I sometimes get fired up by members of the WTF that like to deny the very existence of General Choi. I agree that the WTF has gone a long way in promoting Taekwon-Do to the general public. A new student cares little about the politics of large organizations. Unfortunately for us we become involved in these politics. I'm afraid that you are correct that the WTF and ITF will never be able to merge. While technique hasn't appeared to chage that much, many other things have (sparring being the most noticeable). I know that in his heart Gen. Choi would love to see the groups merge. I'm not an ITF master but I think that dialogs between people like you and me can help heal some of the wounds. Maybe I can get together a explanation of Sign Wave and post it to the group if there is any interest (unless there is a more senior ITF person on the list who would like to do that?!) I take one exception to your post below: I think the Chang-Hon set was popular in the US until the WTF starting dominating. I'm not sure if WTF is dominating in the US. It will be much more visible during the Olympics. Taekwon Robert Martin A-4-336/USTF/ITF ------------------------------ From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 08:59:29 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hawrang pattern CA&B Skjold wrote: > > Hawrang pattern...What is this? > Is this an advanced or Black Belt Pattern? > I know what the Hawrangdo codes are but am not familiar the pattern. The Hawrang pattern is part of the Blue Cottage forms. It is for us the form we do for 2nd gup (brown belt) Soon though, these forms are going to be replaced. We are going to our own system of kyukido. They've invented some forms adding on things that we also do in our system such as hapkido and judo. I have learned the first 4 of these forms and soon will probally learn 4 more. They are slowly replacing these. Who knows, by the time I test for red I may have a different form to do all together. Donna 2nd gup kyukido - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master L. Dorsey Will Lowe asked about Master Larry Dorsey: I've gone through a two full days seminar with Master Dorsey some years back and talked with him on the phone a number of times. He is an excellent practicioner and instructor of Sin Moo HKD, one of Dojunim JI's best people. David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:43:36 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Hwarang Anne wrote: >> Hawrang pattern...What is this? >>Is this an advanced or Black Belt Pattern? Hwarang is an ITF pattern. I learned the meaning of the form as: "Hwarang is named after the Hwarang youth group which originated in the Silla Dynasty in the early 7th century. The 29 movements refer to the 29th Infantry Division where Taekwondo developed into maturity." We use it as our 2nd Gup or Brown Belt form. Silke ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:36:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: RE: Breath Control Approach > > From: JSaportajr@aol.com > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:50:25 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Breath Control Approach > > In a message dated 4/4/00 10:08:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > << Breath Control Approach >> > I found this advise valuable and I strive for similar breath control in my > practice of forms. But for your interest, allow me to share a contradictory > experience. I was practicing my form with a 9th Dan Korean TKD Master. I was > exhaling audibly with the execution of each technique. He chastised me for > this, and told me that while my breath should be controlled in this way, it > should not be audible. If it is audible, he said, an opponent could know when > you have exhaled and thus when you are due to inhale, and then time an attack > to hit you when you are inhaling, which would make a blow to your chest or > abdomen much more damaging if not lethal. I wonder what others would say to > this. Jose' > This is straight out of Dojunim JI's teachings on breathing exercises in Sin Moo HKD, although to be exact it's being hit just as you are *beginning* to inhale. That stops the inhalation and has a subtantial effect on your body and mental processes as well (very sudden loss of energy -- where's that oxygen you promised me!!). David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Jim Donley Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:40:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Rapid Advancement Hi all, I wanted to touch base and get the opinions of some of the senior TKD practitioners or others who've found themselves in the following or similar situations. Since I was awarded my 1st Dan in January, I've been slacking off a bit in my studies, attending class about once or twice a week. When I showed up for class yesterday GM Kim indicated that I was one of three recently promoted 1st Dans that he believes could test for 2nd Dan this year. On one hand I'm honored for his faith in my ability and desire to learn, despite my recent slacking. On the other hand, this seems fast considering I tested for 1st Dan after only two years. I realize that if I attempt this I will need to return to a rigorous training schedule of 5-7 days a week. Any info from those who have done this or had students who've tried this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jim p.s. Welcome to Illinois Ray :) Jim Donley 1st Dan USA Tae Kwon Do Black Belt Center Evanston, IL www.enteract.com/~jrdonley/tkd/index.html "Accept the challenges so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory." --George S. Patton ------------------------------ From: "White Lotus" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:50:56 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Buddhism and Consciousness From: MichaelChoi@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:12:34 EDT Subject: the_dojang: a primer on Buddhism >>>First of all, Buddhism maintains that all deeds and thoughts are extensions of the conscious mind and that these deeds/thoughts always have results/consequences. <<< Michael, This doctrine is from the "Consciousnes Only" school of Buddhism first considered to be taught by Vasubandu, who lived several hundred years after Shakyamuni. The "Consciousness Only" school of Buddhism is well regarded but not representative of Buddhism as a whole. I will not go into details, as this List is not religious in nature. If you, or any other subscriber, is interested I would be pleased to correspond with you privately on the subject; please email me at: whtlotus@nichiren.org. I have been a practicing Buddhist for over 30 years and am studying to be a priest in the Nichiren Tradition. Be Well, Mark Herrick ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:52:47 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The Future of Hapkido Michael Choi wrote: > What do you think of Hapkido's future? Again, thanks very much for a very informative and well written post, as always. Personally, I don't know exactly what will happen to Hapkido in the future, but I can mention two things I hope do NOT happen. One is Hapkido re-unifying to the extent that Hapkido is a franchised, trademarked organization, and before anyone posts anything or says anything about Hapkido, it has to be cleared in advance with the powers that be, and woe unto any independent minded individual who's found a better way. Two, I hope there's no large commercial endeavor or government decree that creates the kind of conflict where you have lawsuits and even physical assaults over who (or who's friend or relative) controls which organization. People criticize Hapkido for its fragmented nature and the amount of variation you find from dojang to dojang. I didn't realize how great this was until I saw some of the problems other more formally structured arts have experienced. I am a member of Master Harold Whalen's Hapkido MooYe Kwan and that's who I follow. Hal is accredited by an international Hapkido organization, but I do what Hal tells me to because I know and trust him. I don't care too much what national headquarters says or what the international by-laws are. I treat others with respect, especially my seniors who've gone before me, and I want to be treated with respect, and that's enough for me. Jesse ------------------------------ From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:18:11 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Normal?!! > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:29:12 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Back to Normal > > Hello from Normal, Illinois... Yes, Normal, Illinois... :) > Ray, since when? :) And just where in this state is it located? Donna - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: Scott Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:19:36 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Women's Self Defence > From: CBAUGHN@aol.com > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:30:06 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Women's Self Defence > > Scott wrote: > > << However I've found that after about 6 months if they don't cross over to > the regular martial arts class the they will start to fade. They just don't > have the dedication to stick with it for much longer. >> > > Hi Scott, > > I'm relatively sure you didn't mean to be making "one of those remarks" about > women, but it kind of came out that way as I read it. My question would be > how many PEOPLE would stick with a self defense course for more than six > months? > > Sally > cbaughn@aol.com > Your right I wasn't trying to make one of "those" comments about women. Sorry bad wording. What I was trying to say was that most women that take an on going WSD course, not just a one time or 8 week class, tend to ether move on to a full martial art, or after they have quilled their initial fear of not being able to protect themselves they tend to stop prioitizing it. That leads to them finding more and more excuses to miss class till they stop coming all together. I find that six months is about the average time the I see this happening. Saying they don't have the dedication is the wrong term. It's more at they have fullfilled the goal that they set for the class which was to aleviate their feeling of helplessness. Beyound that they don't have a desire to study the martial arts, so they tend to stop training. This is why the one time courses are so popular. Many women I talk to about WSD tell men they took a one time seminar 10 years ago. And they kind of remember some of the things they talked about. But that was good enough. They quelled their fear with a placebo course, so they don't feel the need to take another course. That is the same reason Taebo and arobic kick box, are so big. They are a trendy way to feel like they are practiceing self-defense. This fills the mental need even if it dosen't address the real issues. ------------------------------ From: Scott Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:29:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #223 > From: JSaportajr@aol.com > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:50:25 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Breath Control Approach > << Breath Control Approach >> > I found this advise valuable and I strive for similar breath control in my > practice of forms. But for your interest, allow me to share a contradictory > experience. I was practicing my form with a 9th Dan Korean TKD Master. I was > exhaling audibly with the execution of each technique. He chastised me for > this, and told me that while my breath should be controlled in this way, it > should not be audible. If it is audible, he said, an opponent could know when > you have exhaled and thus when you are due to inhale, and then time an attack > to hit you when you are inhaling, which would make a blow to your chest or > abdomen much more damaging if not lethal. I wonder what others would say to > this. Jose' I would say that was correct. That is the way I was always taught. But I've watched to many forms where the student moves around and sounds like they sprung a slow leak. The breath control is correct but it shouldn't be audible. ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 14:48:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Songahm and other things > From: burdickd > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:16:21 -0500 (EST) > Subject: the_dojang: Songahm forms > > Hi! Does anyone know what the translation for Songahm is? This is the > set of forms taught by the A.T.A. > The Songahm style was devised by Grand Master Haeng Ung Lee as a very traditional style of Taekwondo that would challenge the student physically and mentally. Quoting from _The Way of Traditional Taekwondo_, Volume 1; Philosophy and Tradition: "Literally translated, Songahm means 'Pine Tree and Rock'. Grand Master H. U. Lee chose the pine tree as the symbol of Taekwondo for two reasons: first, because of its place in the Korean culture as a symbol of unchanging human loyalty, longevity, respect and happiness; second, because of the parallelism between the pine tree itself and the student of Taekwondo." The student's progress can be likened to the growth of a mighty pine tree from a simple seed. Again quoting from _The Way_: "A rock, the second symbol in the word Songahm, is representative of the traditional style of Songahm Taekwondo. Although the art behind Taekwondo has been around for over 1,300 years, it has been through various changes of names, phil;osophies and technique. This shows its longevity, such as the longevity of a rock that can retain its shape...The rock is a symbol of unity and a solid foundation." Hope this answers your question. For further information on Songahm Taekwondo, please visit the ATA's official web site at www.taekwondousa.com > ------------------------------ > > From: "Paul Rogers" > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:14:01 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #222 > > ><> > > >Are you in Round Rock just north of Austin? The reason I am asking is that > >your name sounds familiar. Have you ever studied hapkido or WTF taekwondo? > > >Jere > > Yup, I'm in the northeast suburbs :). > > But, nope, I never studied hapkido or WTF TKD, although the former > fascinates me. I barely have time to practice ATA TKD and my other fave, > taijiquan.... > > You're right, Mr. Rogers - we don't see you in the region anywhere near as much as we'd like to. Fuss, fuss, fuss :-) > ------------------------------ > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:29:12 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Back to Normal > > Hello from Normal, Illinois... Yes, Normal, Illinois... :) > Some people might say that's about as close to normal as you ever get, Mr. Terry, but not me. Nope. Nope. No way would I say something like that :-) ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:51:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Updated web page I have just added another section to the history part of my web page. Please let me know what you think. Jeremy ------------------------------ From: e98bf031@student.ucd.ie Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 21:18:57 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo Dagger Form Does anyone know/know about the Taekwondo dagger form? I've only ever heard of it a few times in passing. Many thanks. - -Clive ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #224 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.