From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #227 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 7 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 227 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #226 the_dojang: Re: What do you think the_dojang: << Breath Control Approach >> the_dojang: Taekwondo Dagger Form the_dojang: Hadan Sudo the_dojang: What do you think?? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #226 Tournaments the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #225 the_dojang: Korean Karate Chung Do Kwan--Last Copy [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clarketkd@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:00:20 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #226 I have had the opportunity to participate and referee at both WTF Olympic rules tournaments and non-contact "Open Style" tournaments. I have found that point sparring where there is little or no contact is an oxymoron. Students are put in a situation where they are told NOT to make contact (per tournament rules) but then are not awarded points for controlled kicks or punches by the judges - while those competitors that are making contact are awarded points. That is because judges have a hard time awarding points for "getting close". In my mind, it makes no sense to have non-contact sparring tournaments. I once had an instructor that said "You will act in combat, as you do in training" That means that if you practice non-contact martial arts, and are confronted/in a situation where instinct takes over, you will "pull" your punches and kicks on the aggressor, just as you do in the dojang. So, it follows, non contact tournaments are no real test for the competitors nor are they a test of one's skill. I can hear you non-contact stylists screaming at me right now, I know....But it is only my opinion. ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:45:47 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: What do you think Although I am not an active Taekwondo player, I philosophically prefer WTF tournament style because it is one of the most realistic simulation of combat in a SAFE environment. In America, one blow will not stop a counterattack. Kyokushinkai and No Holds Barred sparring is the other extreme. In my opinion, it's way too dangerous; the only people who should do that are those who are willing to be seriously injured. I'm interested in Sport Jujitsu (i.e., the sport Ernie Boggs competed in) which is supposively continuous contact sparring, but allows grabbing, sweeping, and throwing. That gives more possiblity than WTF rules. Has anyone here competed in Sport Jujitsu? With regards to sport, I honestly thought that it was a bad thing, but WTF sport Taekwondo contributed greatly to the development of technique. That is a definite benefit. Sport Taekwondo is an important venue to display physical skills (alongwith demo teams) and a great oppurtunity for practitioners to apply their skills without going to jail. In my opinion, sport Taekwondo must never come at the price of the traditional values of Taekwondo, namely, respect, integrity, perserverence, and self-control. Sport Taekwondo is a part (albeit the most visible part) of Taekwondo. Only by maintaining the values of Taekwondo, the martial art, can sport Taekwondo have an honorable image. The values and traditions of Taekwondo (from both Buddhism and Confucianism) separate sport Taekwondo from Kickboxing. I would like the distinction to be kept. Proper breathing and meditation should always be taught. Meditation is not just about proper breathing, but also mental relaxation and ki development. It will also extends one lifespan (now, I sound like medecine man). In other words, it also has health and longevity benefits. (Sorry for the long editorial from lowly junior black belt.) Sincerely, Michael Choi ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:16:23 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: << Breath Control Approach >> <> In the past, I have worked on some blindfolded sparring. My students could never figure out how I could hit them and still "pull" techniques. My secret...when you do not economize your motion there is a rush of noise (uniform rustling) during the various "wind-ups" people do before they strike. Others inhale louder (with excitement) just before they move in, thus giving away their position. Of course you have to be focused..... just one humble opinion Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/YosemiteDr/mojakwan/ ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:08:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo Dagger Form <> I learned a form as a Cho Dan in WTSDA called Dan Kum Hyung. It was actually a requirement for my Sam Dan exam. When I performed it in the "Korean Weapons" division at the Battle of Atlanta a couple of years back a few people came up to me and said..."What is that form? I know I've seen it before". As to the wide arcs and applications to knife-fighting. If it is the same form (I think it is) one of the Masters that "improved" my performance also explained that the form philosophically shows that even with a Dan Kum we can be non-violent. The progression is, warning cut, maiming cut, lethal cut. Yes it includes all the traditional TSD (read Shotokan) fixed stances. I also train with the balisong and take most of my knife-fighting applications from Kahli/Arnis, and disarms from Hapkido. Just one humble opinion Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:41:36 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Hadan Sudo Just can't sleep nights and so I was re-reading Kyohan last night and noticed in Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Funakoshi Sensei shows the last four moves as Sang Dan (head area) Sudos. In TSD I was taught Hadan Sudo for this hyung. How do other Korean martial arts interpret this Hyung, and if the low knifehand chop is taught, what is your application? Many Thanks, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:20:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: What do you think?? Questions for everyone..... <<1) What type of tournement do you prefer......WTF TKD(olympic style) or the point style(no or very light contact)??>> Came up in the open point fighting system and so I can't get away from hands to the head. Of course my favorite dae ryun is without pads and without points (IMHO). <<2) Do you think sport is good or bad for martial arts? (Be sure to provide your reasons)>> Can be good under a good instructor, where else can you find an unlimited array of varied skill, style, and sized partners to spar with. A good tournament experience (like an exam) can be a good excuse to ratchet up the training intensity.....Of course we are also working towards ego divestment and so we should be able to compete with the person within and make it a good experience (IMHO). <<3) What do you think about meditation (proper breathing) being taught in the dojang? Is it taught in your school?>> I do my best to teach what I know about it. Proper breathing is part of martial science. As to medidation its an integral part of opening and closing salutation (IMHO). I suggest you do what works in your dojang/market if you are a school owner. This list is like candy...addictive and enjoyable Best wishes inthe arts, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 00:28:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #226 Tournaments In answer to question 1 of which tournament style do you like: I've never been to a point tournament that had as many weight classes as a WTF style tournament. Back before the deluge I fought in point tournaments and always felt at a disadvantage. At the time I was 6' 195-200 lb (I'm now short for my weight.), and the break for light to heavy was at 160 lb. Seemed that every tournament the heavyweight division wound up going to a guy right at 160 lb. No/light contact is tag, with the lighter fighter usually quicker. (I did win sometimes.) Also the point fights were a single 2 minute round, or first to three points. WTF style fighting, with proper weight divisions and three 3 minute rounds was a bit more fun, allowing your power and conditioning to be counted. I just wish I had started fighting that way before I was 35. The point? depends on the fighter. I'd have enjoyed point tourneys more if I had been a little smaller, and I would enjoy WTF sparring more if I was a little younger. RIck Foley ------------------------------ From: "Rodney G. Graves" Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:56:53 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #225 Andy, You pose some interesting questions. As regards tournaments and sparring, there are some inherent problems with both when it comes to Hapkido as I learned it. Essentially, most of the techniques I learned are illegal in tournament style sparring. The good reason for this is that most of the more effective techniques are quite likely to injure the recipient, the down side is that you cannot use your best stuff, which then tends to atrophie from lack of use. From my perspective, Martial Arts are NOT a sport. I don't view Hapkido as a sport, and it seems to me that when any combative art is transitioned to a sport, many of the most effective techniques must be limited or proscribed for safety reasons. This in turn limits the real world effectiveness of the sport. My original school spent a fair ammount of time on meditation and breathing techniques, which we do NOT do in my current Dojang here in California. I miss both, and practice them on my own when and as I may. > Questions for everyone..... > > 1) What type of tournement do you prefer......WTF TKD(olympic > style) or the > point style(no or very light contact)?? > > 2) Do you think sport is good or bad for martial arts? (Be sure > to provide > your reasons) > > 3) What do you think about meditation (proper breathing) being > taught in the > dojang? Is it taught in your school? > > Andy > Tink, In line with what I had to say to Andy above, the way we train is the way we will tend to respond in a rapidly developing and potentially life threatening situation. There have been several times when I have been grabbed from behind. In each of those cases, I started to respond and apply technique, stopping when it became clear that there was no real threat, but after I had taken control of the situation. Such reflexive responses are a key ingredient to effective self defense. So... If you are training purely for sport, then practice the things that will help you achieve your sporting goals. If you are practicing a martial way of life, practice the techniques and responses that will ahcieve your goals on the street and in life. V/R Rod > I do not wish to make a big deal out of this, but I think some of us have > taking the breathing thing a little beyond the request...NOT that > the added > info is not helpful...it is very helpful...but the original > request was for > a breathing technique for training in forms...TRAINING...we were > NOT talking > about real life aggressive situations against an > attacker...true...never let > your opponent know your breathing pattern or timing...always > breath through > your diaphragm...not your chest...all this is true and very good advice > ...but we were simply talking about when to breath on the techniques while > TRAINING and PRACTICING forms IN CLASS...not on the street...you can argue > that we practice for self defense on the street, but we are talking about > when to inhale and exhale in forms...and learn to breath with > each movement > and generate power for the duration which we are practicing...all > completely > different than our breathing habits while in the thick of > confrontation...which is a much shorter and more intense duration than > practicing... > > As much as I appreciate the additional info on the > breathing...all of which > I agree with and teach...I would like to ask you to keep things in > perspective and not take everything to an extreme...I am not about to tell > someone something that will put them at risk or in danger when confronting > an aggressor... > > Not to sound cynical, but Dan Jun breathing is not a mystical magical > method...it is breathing and focusing from your center...which is what I > thought all martial arts taught...at least all of the arts with > which I have > come in contact... > > And please don't feel it necessary to apologize for disagreeing > with me...we > each have our own methods and preferences and our own training and > instruction...we are going to have different points of view...the > idea here > is to express them openly and freely and provide the readers with > different > perspectives and opinions on the same ideas... > > Thank you... > > The One and Only... > > Tink ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:18:30 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Karate Chung Do Kwan--Last Copy Howdy All, If anyone's still a'lookin', have one more copy of Duk Sung Son's "Korean Karate: The Art Of Tae Kwon Do" up for auction on e-bay. You can check it out at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=shortgirl&i nclude=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Once you find the title, you can click on the item# on the left, and you can then read a complete description of the book. Whew! The overstock is almost gone.... - --Chaney ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 05:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #227 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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