From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #238 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 12 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 238 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Song-am forms,... the_dojang: Re: Weapons sparring the_dojang: Re: "Pure" Martial Arts the_dojang: Re: For Daniel=Pak Sao/Lap Sao the_dojang: Sparring the_dojang: Invitation the_dojang: Late Answers to Thoughts [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Rogers" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:43:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Song-am forms,... > Subject: the_dojang: Song-am forms, Terre Haute Karate > > ON THE SONG-AM SET: > > Thanks to everybody for the help on the Song-am forms. Pine rock sounds > like the translation I'll go with for now. For others interested in > researching this stuff, check out the Minjung Essence Korean-English > Dictionary. > > Page 1021 gives some words with "song" as "pine." > Page 1161 gives some words with "am" as "rock." > > Pages 1160 and 1162 point out that "am" can be the same as "amja," > which is "a small Buddhist temple; a Buddhist hermitage [retreat]; > a hermit's cell [cottage]." Note that the Romanization that's used by the ATA is Songahm. I have a sneaky feeling that your reference and research is far more precise, though....8?) Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA) ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:01:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Weapons sparring I would like to post in the weapon sparring discussion. As a martial artist who has studied the Filipino arts for a while, we do a lot of weapons sparring. Initially you see beginners do what is sometimes called, "Defanging." This simply means that they only can strike the hand that controls the weapon. They utilize that rank level's footwork and deception strategies in efforts to keep from being "defanged" themselves. This "defanging" results either a nerve strike induced disarm or a sympathetic muscle "flex-reflex" response making the student drop the weapon. Later stages of sparring for beginners include striking the other limbs wit the weapon, empty hand striking and kicking, basic disarms (non impact) and take downs. Intermediate students will begin to have sparring matches with other weapons against other weapons and now can sweep, join lock and throw. The match stops temporarily when a student gets taken down or thrown starting the grappling and Groundfighting portion of training. Then it renews again. Advanced students will spar using all the above, now adding multiple opponents and multiple weapons. They will begin to fight to a finish now, trying to make the opponent submit utilizing a Groundfighting arm or leg lock, other immobilization or choke. At this point, they will have sparred against other students with single and double sticks, single and double knives, long staff, spear and empty handed. They will have used all these weapons as well as been empty handed against them also. I have a complete curriculum and training methodology that can be used to train in TKD and HKD. It was passed to me by my instructor, if any one would like to use it, please contact me on a separate email and I will be happy to provide it to you. Yours in training, Jim Mahan ------------------------------ From: WEE Shin Hoe Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:01:14 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: "Pure" Martial Arts Greeting All! I am just a 1st Dan in WTF Taekwon-do and half-filled "Kup" in Hapkido. So please take my opinions with a grain of salt. First of all, I believe that there is no such thing as "Pure" Martial Arts. Martial Art by itself is survival art (At least in the old days.). If your art is not good enough, you simply don't survive to pass it down. You has to improve or adapt your art to yourself to make the most out of it. A 6 feet 180kg person will fight very differently from a 5 feet 60kg guy even if they are from the same style. Failure to do so means that you do not survive. Thus, for an art to remain effective, it has to adapt to the environment and evolve constantly. A good example will be Shaolin Temple. Why do you think they have thousands of styles instead of one? And probably a new style had been created every month. Some do not survive, but others such as Wing Chun do. However, if you look at the Wing Chun practiced by different masters, they are not exactly the same. What do remain unchaged are the theories and the principles behind the art. In my opinion, a "pure" martial art is just like a dinosaur, it will be extinct. - -- Regards, WEE Shin Hoe Malaysia Email : shinhoe@pc.jaring.my > From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com > Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:30:26 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_DD,V7 #235 > > Greetings All, > Something that Mr.Burresse wrote in his last response has caused me to > think, (isnt it funny how he can do that) and to write. Why are so many > martial artists concerned with keeping their martial art 'pure' and free from > any type of additions? I think the point here (on forms) is that some > instructors choose to add forms and some dont. Those that do, probably feel > that the forms somehow increase the > effectiveness/retention/balance/power/etc. of their art. Good for them. > Many feel that forms practice is bad....but thats another issue. > Think of all of the 'creators' of the various martial ways. Think of all > the training they did before they created or named their style. Many had > high ranks in several different arts and combined them. If you take a look > at prominent historical founders like Jigoro Kano, Morihei Ueshiba, Gen.Hong > Hi Choi, Yong-Sul Choi, you find a common thread....for years and years they > studied SOMEONE ELSES martial art, then after much sweat and hard training, > began teaching THEIR martial art, usually a conglomeration of several martial > styles and concepts. Many founding masters discovered that to make something > better it must evolve. That is nature. Things that dont evolve die. > Everyone has different views on what makes an art better, or what can be done > different to improve the current curriculum. Who is to say change is bad. > I'm sure that the founders would find it interesting to see how their > improvements and developments have been improved upon by others that have > reached a certain level of understanding. > Many years ago, I discovered that trying to keep the TKD I taught pure > was limiting, and then started training in a different style of TKD to > augment it. The knowledge that I have received from both TKD's, Karate, > Aikido, JuJutsu, and a smattering of other arts has lead me to the > combination I teach now. I teach using the 1st TKD as a base art, and > introduce other concepts to it. I have not created a new martial art, all of > the techniques existed before I came along, I have just found a better way > (for me) to do them. Lets face it, there are only so many ways to bend, > twist and strike a human body. > The 'open' mind thinking of the founders led them to create their new > systems, and make their arts evolve. It still amazes me to find the 'my art > is better than your art' mindset in todays martial world. It also amazes me > to find MA'ists who refuse to do anything different than what their > instructor did, or their instructors instructor did and so on. Purity to me > is making that inverted-arm hip throw work after bridging the gap with a > beautiful yup chagi. Nobody taught me to do that. I had to be creative. My > instructors wanted me to be creative, and I want my students to also be > creative. I look forward to seeing what my creativity has lead others to > find and adapt...it will take a while, but it will be worth it... > Sorry Ray for the length, > > Train hard, Train right, > Mark C. Gajdostik ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: For Daniel=Pak Sao/Lap Sao Daniel stated, in part: Response: Good analysis of inside versus outside fighting. I have noticed the Arnis/Escrima and Wing Chun crowd like the inside techniques (different range) versus the TKD crowd (outside range). Notice the Wing Chun Dummy Training which incoporates the priciples Daniel discusses. Hence, any comments from experts on incorporating these concepts into an eclectic system. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:51:27 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Sparring Dear Anne, Sigong Lee (and many others) claim their are basically four ranges (in reverse order of proximity); kick, punch, trap and grappling/ground fighting. In my study of Kick-Punch arts (point fighting, et. al) they look at outer neutral zone, kick zone, punch zone, and inner neutral zone. Then you can factor in reach difference. If you have less reach, and in theory more speed, then your punch/elbow/knee range is in the "area of ineffective power" for your taller *slower* advisary.... have at it ....of course the transition from the outer neutral zone to "up close and personal" can be kind of scary if they have a quick defensive front leg side kick.....This is where you will begin to understand the value of feints, and Musashi Sensei's Timing of Twos (good luck). Now here's some real fun if you cross train. The shorter player has an automatic advantage (lower center of gravity) if Yudo techniques are permitted. Nothing like a good *softening* blow to cover your entry to a good shoulder or hip throw. You'll find that many kick-punch arts ignore this transition as many ground-fighting arts ignore distance kicking {shrug}. Secondly, your kick zone is in their full power punch zone....most *slower* (read bigger) players will have spent years learning to time good counters (read reverse punch). And a few more years hitting bricks, boards, and anything else that *feels good* when it cracks (read ribs)....Be careful. To spar *your* match you will need to be aware of the zones, and be the one in control of the distance relationship. Of course the more you feel you can control a thing the less fear you have about it. And such is life (Tao). Train with martial science, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/YosemiteDr/mojakwan/ ------------------------------ From: Andreas John Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 6:46:40 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Invitation Invitation for 4th International Hwal-Mu-Hapkido Seminar im Germany MOON, Byung Tae 9th Dan Hapkido World Chief-Instructor of Korea Hwal Mu Hapkido Association and Korea Thai Boxing Association & KIM, Young Kwan 8th Dan Hapkido Vice President The seminar with both Grandmasters will be on 20 May and 21 May, 2000 in Alsweiler (Saarland). All martial artists and members of all associations are welcome. There will be: Self-Defence (Ho Shin Sul), stick techniques (Chang Bong), Sword (Kal) and Knife ( Kal). Please bring long stick and two wooden knifes (or dan bong) with you. Cost of the seminar: pre-paid: 110,- DM (German Marks, about 55 US$) payment on the day of seminar: 120,- DM (German Marks, about 60US-$) Please reserve, the number of participants is limited. Every participant gets a certifitcate and a pin. Its possible to sleep in the dojang (please bring your sleeping bag with you). Alsweiler is about 1.5 houres by car from Frankfurt. Lehrgangszeiten: Sat., 20.Mai: Begin: 9 AM End: 5 PM Break: 12.00 AM to 13.00 PM At 6 PM there will be a little Budo-Gala. Sun., 21.May: Begin: 9.30 AM End: 5 PM Break: 12.00 AM to 13.00 PM The organzier shall not be liable to property damage or damage to persons. registration, description how to find the dojang and more info: Hapkido & Kick/Thaibox Schule Mark Klinger Robert-Kochstra=DFe 9 66333 V=F6lklingen Tel.: +49 6898 294929 oder +49 173 4599251 Email: mark@hapkido.de Web: www.Hapkido.de/klinger Payment shall be made to: Account#: 01194832 Bank#: 591 900 00 Bank Name: Saar Bank Purpose: Hapkido 2000 + Your name and popne#. Andi ( john@hapkido.de, hapkido.de webmaster ) Message origin: john@systemdesign.net ; http://www.systemdesign.net This message and any statements expressed therein are those of myself and not of System Design or its subsidiary companies. ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:44:48 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Late Answers to Thoughts Ok so I'm just a little behind on this one... 1) What type of tournament do you prefer......WTF TKD (Olympic style) or the point style (no or very light contact)? I have Refereed, Judged, and Competed in both styles. I enjoy both, but prefer point style...better yet...open style (far more techniques allowed as legal...sweeps, floor techniques, punching to head and face...etc)...There is much I can discuss on this topic, but I will try to give you the Readers Digest version... The Olympic style is challenging from the aspect of going a continuous 2 to 3 minutes per round and hoping you can still breath when it is all over...The safety equipment is very cumbersome and restrictive for me, but allows full contact without too much effect to the body. I hate all the equipment, but it's the requirement...Neither do I like the forearm and shin pads, I never have liked them...hand and foot pads are NOT required, which seems contradictory to the rules and high standards for safety...I like open fingered gloves and booties...no other safety gear with the exception of mouthpiece and cup...Hand techniques rarely score unless you can deliver enough of them in sequence with sufficient power to move your opponent. I will estimate that 95% to 98% of the match is all kicks with hands down at the sides...pretty much defeats the purpose of blocking your head and guarding your body...I also find this style to be more dangerous from an injury aspect than the point style...I have literally seen more injuries in one tournament than I have seen in two decades of point tournaments...I think the style lends itself to increased injuries just from its nature. Point tournaments prefer because I get to rest and breath every time there is a call for point...some of us are old...I like the idea of knowing the score as it occurs, rather than waiting till the end for a referees decision on the tally (which I will mention later)...I also like the idea of no head gear, chest protector, forearm or shin pads...when I get hit, I know it...if I can't take it, then I don't belong there or need to train harder...It is "Light" contact, but usually ends up being about 50% power in most matches...though competitors are often warned about using control and reducing their power...when I referee, I require that my corner judges demonstrate the technique which they saw as a score...this way if two judges call for white point and each show a different technique, there is no point awarded unless I saw one of same techniques...where as in Olympic style, the actual winner (the one who scored the most and was the most aggressive) can actually lose due to the way the scoring is final tallied...this has happened on a couple of occasions, though it is rare...in point tournaments, there is no question (relatively speaking...politics and favoritism are in all tournaments, unfortunately)... 2) Do you think sport is good or bad for martial arts? (Be sure to provide your reasons) It's a question continuously asked...no real answer except wait and see...however...(hehehe)...you get my opinion regardless... I prefer the Art aspect totally...I believe it to be pure in nature as well as well as educational in regards to acquired knowledge and capability, maturity, and life...I have no problem with the sport as it is ideal for some...however, I find the sport to be only that...a pass time event in a quest for the gold...I also find that the sport eliminates much of the art by contradictory methods and style...this is absolutely fine and excellent for some...just not for me...I believe that if there is not a proper balance maintained between the art and the sport together as belonging to the same heritage...the sport will be very detrimental to the art and the heritage will eventually diminish with greater stress put on sport and winning as opposed to mind and body as one for self improvement and personal growth while learning self defense...My goal as a martial artist and instructor is to maintain the heritage, the history, the tradition, the art, the spirit, the heart, and the way of life... 3) What do you think about meditation (proper breathing) being taught in the dojang? Is it taught in your school? It is a very important aspect in all martial arts and should be part of the training...We do teach it, but not on a regular basis as it should be...at one time, my students and I meditated at the end of each class...that has since gone by the wayside as more time is being spent on specific training methods and conditioning...I would like to get back to meditating at the end of every class...though one can always meditate no matter where they may be... That sums up the Readers Digest version of my thoughts on the topics...take it for what it's worth...enjoy... The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #238 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.