From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #258 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 18 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 258 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Sandy's surgery the_dojang: Re: yes, my Jeep is my Life ! the_dojang: Re: Abusive Instructor the_dojang: Re: King of the World the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #257 the_dojang: cannot access www.martialartsresource.com the_dojang: abusive instr. the_dojang: Re: Moments when you say "Opps"...McD dont mess with the Masters ? the_dojang: Mr. Buehrer=yes, my Jeep is my Life ! the_dojang: Martial Spirit vs. Money the_dojang: RE: Abusive Instructor [none] [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:41:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Sandy's surgery > ------------------------------ > > From: "Gecko K. Martial Arts" > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:09:37 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: fear of re injury > > Well two weeks since my knee surgery and all is well. I was wondering > though, I have this intense fear of re-injuring it. Before the surgery I > knew that the damage had been done and so I didn't worry about injuring it > > more, but now I am very concerned. I was back to class on Sat and I can't > do > much training (no jumping, spinning or twist kicks which in TKD limits it > a > lot) I can coach and ref:) What little kicking I did do (front kick and a > > few turning kicks) There was a fair amount of pain (which is to be > expected) > but above all I was so worried about re hurting it. > > Has anyone had this kind of experience? > Any words of advice? > > Thanks Sandy > Two weeks? Sheesh... I don't remember reading what surgery you had, but I was told to lay off for 6 weeks after a minor meniscus removal. What did you have done and why has the doc allowed you to start after only 2 weeks? Just curious... Kerry WTF TKD ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:01:15 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: yes, my Jeep is my Life ! From: Ken McDonough >Mr. Buehrer noted, in part: > >>> >CJ-7 Jeep I spent 7 years restoring. Who knows ? >> >>Are you saying that your life is less important to you than your Jeep? [snip] > One correction, >me and "Lone Wolf" (My 78 CJ) well, we are inseparable. As I write this >I am in my Jeep, and I often sleep in my Jeep to get away from the wife. >Lone Wolf understands this and never argues with me. Just keep a few >quarts of oil in her and she is happy. Yes, I would give my life up for >Lone Wolf. The places we been, the things we have seen...well, Lone Wolf >knows. You just wouldn't understand. Love the subject line :) And while I can't truely understand, I can sorta understand. I understand that many people die rather than compromise a value, belief, etc. I'm sure that I have a value or belief that I wouldn't be willing to compromise. And when I have children I know that their life will be more valuable to me than my own, and given a choice between their life and mine, I will choose theirs. That must be one heck of a Jeep :) To Life, - -David Buehrer 6th Gup, Hapkido http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3 - -- "Earn what you have been given." ------------------------------ From: HwarangTSD@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:52:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Abusive Instructor Not to sound as though I am criticizing you, I would like to comment on what you said about your daughter. Before I continue, I'd like to say that what I'm about to say is not necessarily about your instructor, but it is information which has been proven and may be occuring in this case.... I am concerned because it sounds as though your daughter is becoming a co-dependant on the treatment this instructor is giving her. This could be very dangerous, particularly when a parent does not put the foot down and say "This is not right!" You are teaching your child that there is nothing wrong with this type of behavior, and in fact you may be causing her problems down the road. It is easy to indicate, yeah I understand, but when the damage is being done at a sub conscious level, you end up wondering why am I doing this? Further, there are many many instances where people have been kidnapped and raped and then they developed, they being the victims, a mental dependancy on this. They have even go so far as to believe they were in love with their assailant. This is not good. I firmly believe that you are doing your daughter more harm than good by leaving her in an abusive situation. To be honest, the treatment you described sounded similar to what I went through at basic training at Ft Benning. The major difference being the cadre were not allowed to touch us. Now I ask you, If the military is unwilling to touch you in a hostile manner of training, and they train you to give up your life if necessary (i.e. being ordered to do something really dumb), then why is it ok for a civilian instructor to abuse a child? Incidentally, regardless of the reason, the instructor committed assault and battery when he pushed her. This is a criminal act. As a parent it is incumbant to protect our children from all manner of predators, even when they appear in the guise of a Martial Arts Instructor. No one, but no one, will put their hands on my child regardless of the reason. This one act alone is reason enough to pull the child out of the class. But, in the end the decision rests with you. I wish you well, and I hope that nothing worse ever happens to your daughter, but from my experience, when you give someone an inch they take a mile. I know this next scenario is a little different, but lets say your daughter was learning Yoga. And the instructor decided to have sex with her, keeping in mind that there are those sects who believe that sex is necessary for enlightenment, would that be ok? Of course not! So tell me, what is the difference? In both cases you have an authority figure abusing his power. Thanks for your time and sorry for the length of this thought, Frank ------------------------------ From: HwarangTSD@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:53:13 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: King of the World Thanks for the Queen of the world joke. Today is my birthday and its been a very rough day. Your timing was great! BTW, when is that contest in san francisco? Frank ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:00:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #257 In a message dated 4/18/00 2:28:15 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Have some guts, lady and pull your daughter out of that school now. You got good advice and a lot of encouragement to end this. Now be a parent, instead of a spectator and act. Vic Cushing >> Yes, go with the advice you got from all the professional instructors on this list. Get her out. Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: Arlene Slocum Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:07:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: cannot access www.martialartsresource.com I couldn't get on your page today. It said I did not have permission. I hope the problem is temporary. Arlene Slocum 1st Dan Lawrence Tae-Kwon-Do School Lawrence, Kansas arlenes@geoaccess.com ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:35:49 EDT Subject: the_dojang: abusive instr. << I know there will be a few of you who will disagree but my daughter knows best what she wants and as long as she wants to continue and is enjoying it I will let her stay. >> Wow, Ma'am, this behavior must stop before it becomes a cycle. Not acting in removing ANYONE from an abusive situation lets them know its ok, and that it is acceptable behavior. You, by letting your daughter continue, have become an enabler. If this youngster grows up to believe that verbal/mental abuse is normal, then what kind of lifestyle are you preparing her for? Being the subject and VICTIM of unchecked verbal and mental aggression can lead to MORE aggression. As a police officer, I am TIRED of responding to neverending 'domestic violence' calls, where I see exactly this type of behavior (enabling)and seeing the creation of victims. Something in you said that the behavior was wrong...thats why you asked this list the question in the first place..go with your 1st impression of this action being wrong, and make the adult choice for your daughter (a child), your responsibility. I dont want to see her as a plaintiff or an ER patient in the future. Your move, act or watch. mg ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Moments when you say "Opps"...McD dont mess with the Masters ? Master West stated: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:57:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Ken McD's gratuity Ken: Thanx for your solicited recommendation, and I will be sure to give you something special in MD......Thanx again..JRW> Response: There are times in everyone's life when they say..."Opps...or what is that blue/red light following me in my rearview mirror, or...sorry Honey I came home drunk...or he got me..." Now is the time to not anger the great Masters... Similarly, I don't tangle with Mack trucks in my little 1960's VW bug. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:15:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Mr. Buehrer=yes, my Jeep is my Life ! From: Ken McDonough CJ-7 Jeep I spent 7 years restoring. Who knows ? Buehrer: <> Along these lines, my father said something to me last year I found very interesting. He's never really had any money all his life and is now retired. He did well in the stock market and purchased his dream car, a Jaguar XK8 sports car. Not cheep. We were talking one day about something that must have happened in the news. He was a little paranoid about getting hi-jacked driving that car. He said he would also drive it into a tree or pole if he was ever hi-jacked, knowing his chances were better than if he were to be forced to drive "elsewhere" (he lives in a very poor rural area). I found it interesting that he didn't seem to hesitate to do that seeing how much the car costs and it was a dream come true. Later, Mac ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:32:45 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Martial Spirit vs. Money Dear List Folk, I need some help sorting out thoughts I've been having about a future martial arts school I'd like to start someday. These thoughts came to me after viewing a very shabby kids' class at my dojang.... I'm very big, personally, on the Way of the Warrior. I believe strongly that the applied effort in training should be equal to that of an actual fight. I believe that form should be perfect (or at least the student should be continually working toward perfection). I believe that constant goofing off by children in class should result in some form of "punishment", like push-ups or even expulsion. In other words, I think training should be taken seriously by all students, regardless of age. Otherwise, the classes amount to nothing more than phys. ed. classes. The main question is this: Are these ideals too unreasonable to ever make a successful martial arts school in this country? If the focus was more on discipline, spirituality, and training rather than exercise and playtime (let them go to an aerobics class for that), who in this country would be willing to enroll in a school like this? I guess I should mention that money is not my prime motivation for eventually opening a school. I want a quality martial arts school of a traditional nature. I think most martial arts schools today focus more on money than quality and the Way of the Warrior. Any thoughts? Input of any kind would be more than appreciated. Pilseung! Morgan ------------------------------ From: Alyssa Wood Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:55:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Abusive Instructor I must add, I also received many replies to my personal email address that know her instructor......they don't feel he is abusive..... Rest assured I did not let my daughter make the choice alone, after getting reassurance from many people, I CHOSE to let her stay and my husband......I did have a talk with the instructor in how I felt and he agreed to try my way....and not get in the kids faces during the tournament but wait till back at the dojang. This is also not a reoccurring incident....this has happened at this one tournament. No need to be concerned, I will NOT let anything bad continue to happen! :o) Thank you all again and especially the ones who know Master Lee and spoke up. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #258 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.