From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #263 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 19 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 263 In this issue: the_dojang: Morgans school #2 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #262 the_dojang: Morgan's School the_dojang: Books the_dojang: Morgan's School the_dojang: Re: Morgan's School the_dojang: Perfect Execution the_dojang: Re: Summer camps the_dojang: Re: weight training the_dojang: Re: Big chests [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800+ members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:51:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Morgans school #2 The problem with the idea of teaching only "dedicated" people is how you will go about determining who is dedicated and who is not. Everyone that walks in your door thinks that they are or will be dedicated, and peoples' dedication will change from day to day and from situation to situation. I will teach any fool that walks in my door, and one of two things will happen, 1st, they will have or develop a training attitude within the 1st year, and everyone will be happy, or 2nd, they will NOT develop this attitude within the 1st year and they will leave, again making everyone happy, but I have seen people that I thought would never make it through the first month go on to be some of my best students ( one of my best Blackbelts wrote on his initial application that the reason he wanted to train with us was because our uniforms were "cool"), and, by the same token, some of the students that I thought had the utmost ability and desire, left within the first few months or so. Believe me, ALL YOU CAN DO is teach whoever comes to you with any level of desire, and do your best to indoctrinate them to beauty that is martial art. Remember YOU are the expert, and it is up to you to make sure that as many people as possible are exposed to the arts, and you never know when the next future master is going to walk in your door and ask you some stupid question about martial arts (when do we learn to kill people? etc.). Look past all the characterization and teach as many as you possibly can as well as you possibly can, the ones who stay with you will thank you...This is your job as a teacher...J. R. West ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:13:06 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #262 In a message dated 4/19/00 3:44:57 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Concerning ADHD or ADD. Someone already said it. Adults Don't Discipline I am a full time MA instructor and I treat every child the same. ADD and ADHD has maid millions for the medical business, drugged more kids than we want to think about, and gave parents an excuse for their kids behavior. Did ADD exist before Day Care? I want to Know?! Gary ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:56:46 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Morgan's School > Morgan wrote: >> So, are you saying, in your opinion, the only reason to teach these people >> would be to pay the bills? Jesse wrote: > Morgan, I hope you know this is NOT what GM West is saying. These folks will > gets lots of benefit, commensurate with their effort, from studying with GM > West. I know that, but I think we're talking about two different things(?) My original post was on a future school that *I* was thinking of opening. > But the students aren't there just to make their instructor happy, or > to help the instructor achieve his or her goals. They are there for their own > reasons, and they bring to the dojang who they are, not what we want them to > be, or what we *know* inside they could be. Then we have a slight difference of opinion, that's all. While I wouldn't dream of making students into something *I* want them to be, I certainly would expect them to become what they're capable of becoming, or at least put a LOT of effort in that direction. > As for money, if you're wealthy enough to be able to afford to run a school > purely for the fun of it, that's fantastic. But most everyone else at least > needs to recoup their investment, if not pay all their bills, which means > their martial arts business is just that, a business. That means what some > would call compromise. Exactly, and that's why I explained I wasn't interested in doing that way. This is why I clarified my main reasons for opening a school. I wouldn't say I'm "wealthy", but present circumstances just happen to dictate that money would not *necessarily* have to be a determining factor. > Personally, I think if instructors only taught those they enjoy teaching, of > those they are 100% comfortable with, then we're back to the days of martial > arts being a deep, dark secret, passed down only to members of secret > societies. That was quite an intellectual jump there. I never said I would only teach those I'm "comfortable with". Let's say it this way: "If instructors only taught those whom they enjoy teaching," then only quality martial arts students will be taught. The concept of a "deep, dark secret passed down only to members of secret societies" has nothing to do with this concept, and I'm not even sure where this idea came from. > What about the working stiffs like me, with limited time to > indulge their dreams of improved physical fitness and self defense > proficiency? There are PLENTY of schools out there who cater to the needs of the hobbyist, sports enthusiast, or the ones interested in physical gains of martial practice. My opening a school would not affect those folk in the least -- after all, that's where the money is. My school would perhaps cater to a limited market, but a market that I think is out there. I've heard from quite a few Warriors on this list who would like a school such as the one I suggest, so I'm beginning to think it's not an impossible idea. Peace! Morgan ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:57:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Books Howard wrote: > Morgan, check at http://www.turtlepress.com they have books and articles > for school owners and instructors. Check their online catalog and under > the "More Articles" box goto View All Articles. Might find something > that will help. Thanks a bunch!! I appreciate that. Pilseung, Morgan ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:01:23 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Morgan's School Arthur wrote: > all i know about starting a school is that there's probably books out > there on starting a small business, or even books on non-profit > organizations... i don't know which you're into... (probably non-profit > by the looks of it) and what i kind of understand after glancing through > the books is that there are different procedures to go through if you're > in the non-profit business (different forms, different things to fill > out... yada yada, blah blah... i don't know the specifics sorry) This is an EXCELLENT idea! I hadn't even thought about a non-profit school. That IS a possibility. Thanks! > about the discipline, what would happen at the school that i went to > long ago, was first a verbal warning was given to the student, and if a > second infraction/violation occurred then we would make them do > something called "Go-ra-ba-ga" (??? i think this is how it sounds... > ummm). Anyways, what this punishment involved was having the student > stay in the corner of the class and bend over, touching their head to > the ground, so that only three pints of the body were touching the > ground, head and two feet. the hands were placed behind the back. What > I would do for beginner students is show them myself what the punishment > was and warn them that if they weren't disciplined, then they would have > to do this... This was only used rarely, in all my 7~8 years of TKD, > i've only seen it done to maybe 20 people total... after one person has > seen another do it... no one ever wants to cross the teacher... too > badly anyways... other than that, we would generally scare the kids with > it... and they would listen immediately... All I can say to that one is ... Wow. Thanks for the input! Pilseung, Morgan ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:21:59 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Morgan's School > << My question was originally, "Do I really want > to teach martial arts to people who are in it only for a hobby, or for > 'getting in shape'?" The more I think about it, I'm thinking "no". >> Jose wrote: > At the risk of overreacting, your post here touched a nerve. What is wrong > with martial arts training for a hobby or for getting in shape? Nothing at all. I'm merely saying that that isn't the way *I* would enjoy teaching it. Martial arts is much, much more *to me*. Not to everyone, tho, I admit. > I've been training in martial arts since 1975. My motives to train varied > depending on what else was happening in my life. Some times it played a > central role in my life, including a lot of competition; other times, such as > when I was in medical school or residency it took a back seat and was a hobby > that helped me stay in shape. When my children were young I put them before > training. My teachers always welcomed me to train whatever my motives and I > always felt my reasons for training were understood and respected. It felt > good to always be welcomed back for whatever reason. It's good that you found a teacher who could fullfil your wants and needs, then. Why get so upset that I have different ideas than you do? They don't apply to you, only to myself. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. > Your post suggests an elitist attitude. It seems that you are looking down > your nose at people who have different motives to train in martial arts. > (i.e.: you speak of lowering the "qualaity" of your school by teaching these > people). Having a different view of martial arts than you and certain others does not make me an "elitist".... I do think martial arts was originally a very honorable life-or-death art that had it's basis in spirituality and was a way of life. I see martial arts in that light -- but I'm not saying that others should see it my way. What I AM saying is that there are a few people out there (admittedly few) who currently do see martial arts as I do -- as a sacred way of life and a spiritual path. Those of us who view martial arts in this way long for a school and teacher that will support that ideal and influence us to be our best spiritually as well as physically. The goal would not be to have the slowest heart rate in the class, or to kick the highest, or to win a trophy, but instead to use the movements as a meditation, and as a tool to recognize one's connectedness to nature. I realize there are many on this list who do teach martial arts for other purposes. I am not condemning those people, and I am sorry if it appeared that way. I am saying that is not the way *I* wish to go with it. > I would never want to train under a person who was not able to appreciate and > respect the variety of reasons people are drawn to the martial arts. Your > attitude implies disrespect towards those who come to your dojang for their > own reasons, and I feel sorry for students that have a teacher that looks down > on them in that way and thinks her own reasons to train are the best or most > legitimate, but who still tolerates them just to get their money. I would also not wish to be under such an instructor. If a student who wishes to learn martial arts for any other reason other than spirituality or the Way of the Warrior, I would direct them to another school (of which there are plenty). No looking down one's nose need happen. The issue here is that people are different. You need not see yourself as "better" or "worse" than I am. I certainly don't see you in that way. > The best martial artist I have known is an 8th dan in TKD 8th dan in > Hapkido and a former professional kick boxer with an undefeated record. I > don't think many people could claim to have trained as hard as he has in his > life; he really lived the life of a warrior, including combat in Vietnam in > the Korean Tiger Division and self defense instructor for this division.Yet, > his attitude is one of humility and respect for people who want to train for > whatever reason. Good for him! Please re-read my above comments. I think you are taking offense where none is intended. > This is not an insincere attitude to pay the rent; it is > obviously sincere. I have also attended seminars with Juan Moreno, who trains > harder than most martial artists in the country. His attitude was always one > of praise and respect for what ever brings people to train. Why is it that > the best martial artists seem to be the ones most open to and have the most > respect for peoples' varied motives for martial arts training? I don't think > the answer is money. I think that they are secure enough in themselves that > they do not need to judge other people's reasons for training, but instead > they can understand and welcome people who are there for various motives. > Many people who are not living the "life of a warrior" (whatever that means > in modern society) can apply the lessons they learn in martial arts training > to their life. Im sorry Morgan, but I don't like the attitude that seems to > be implied in your post, though I may have been mistaken in the attitude that > I read there. I think you were -- perhaps I just didn't make myself clear. Humility is certainly a virtue along the Way of the Warrior, and I apologize if I didn't appear to be attempting to uphold that ideal. I am nowhere near ready to train others. I have a looong way to go before a school such as mine could be a reality. I suppose what I am doing at this point is refining my own philosophy about what being a Warrior means to *me*, and what I wish to empart to others who are on the same path. It is my hope that you take my posts as such. Peace! Morgan ------------------------------ From: Morgan Kochel Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:25:18 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Perfect Execution > Morgan wrote: >> there is a woman of 50-something in our class who is a red belt >> ... >> As a teacher, at her level, I would have expected much more power, and I >> wouldn't advance her until I saw that power. Jesse wrote: > Be careful that you recognize what a student is capable of, and reward the > student for achieving that. Exactly. I think that in taking the attitude that I have on martial arts and belt advancement, I would DEFINITELY have to be sure I know a student's limitations and abilities before making such a judgment. > I was at a KukSool awards ceremony once and noticed a (what's the PC way to > put this?) very overweight blackbelt in uniform. Guess who the master picked > for part of the demonstration? I never saw her throw a single kick, but she > was throwing her partner around like a ragdoll, and she was a demon with the > short stick. It was obvious she could use this stuff when it counted. Yes, that is what my Sahbumnim says -- that repitition counts more than force. I don't know that I agree, but I'm certainly willing to observe for quite a while before coming to my own conclusion on this. > But if her instructor was a stickler for requirements and insisted she do, > say, jumping kicks and acrobatic moves perfectly, I doubt she would've reached > black belt, or achieved as highly as she did in self defense techniques and > weapons. Quite possibly. There might be some confusion about what I mean by "perfect". What I should say is, "To the very best of the student's present ability." Pilseung! Morgan ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:23:34 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Summer camps We host summer camps each year. We always pick some interesting location, so there is a chance of sight-seeing and additional activities. The summer camps are always two weeks long. Depending on the age groups, we have 2-3 classes a day, and yes, they are broken down by age groups and sometimes also by personal preferences, since we train in more than one style (some students may for example do Hapkido, while the others would prefer Eskrima class at the same time). There are usually some seminars led by invited masters. We sometimes show movies, but we really prefer wandering, sight-seeing, games. Last year we did for example an introduction into Hangul, massage class, parties. We charged ca. 180 US$ for two weeks, including accomodation & training (full board). It may look inexpensive in the U.S., but in my area, an average monthly income is ca. US$ 200-300. However, our training camps are for students who already are members of our school or co-operating schools. Last year we had a strong contingent from Germany. Were the camps succesful? Well, each year we have more and more people joining the camp, so I think yes! This year, we are going south - Opava Mountains, at the Czech Republic border, and again with our German friends, invited masters from all around Poland and Germany, lots of trips and some more ideas! Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:23:21 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: weight training As many of you know, I have been certified by the ISSA as a fitness trainer and as a specialist in martial arts conditioning. I am for weight training to help your martial art training, as well as for general fitness. Weight training has it's place in any sport/fitness program. (While I don't do martial arts for sport any more, I still feel the weight training helps with my HKD, and I know the weight training aided me in real self-defense situations I have been in.) Anyway, I posted about this new book by Charles Staley a while back, and at that time it was not released yet. It is now available, and I think it would be a good addition to any martial art library. I have not read it yet, but plan on it. Charles wrote the ISSA's Specialist in Martial Arts Conditioning text, and many magazine articles, so I know he knows his stuff. I have learned from and agree to much of what he has written. I look forward to learning from this book, using it's advice to help my training, and to use it as a reference to a project I am working on. Here is some information on the book. You can order the book or contact Charles about it at the web site at the end. - Alain "The Science of Martial Arts Training" Book Highlights: * A thorough treatment of training principles and how they apply to the training of athletes with various levels of experience. * A look at how conditioning and skills training should be integrated throughout the training cycle. * An overview of the various motor abilities needed by martial artists and how they can be developed. * An exhaustive look at the role of strength training in the development of martial artists, including various forms of strength and the important role played by stabilizers and antagonists. * A valuable section of professional resources. * A state-of-the-art treatise on flexibility development and assessment, including velocity specific flexibility training and the role of temperature and humidity on range of motion. * A thorough look at the application of plyometrics and Olympic lifting modifications. * A comprehensive discussion of injury prevention and management, including the role of proper training in injury prevention. * The Max Jones Quadrathelon: Assessing your speed strength capacity. * Cutting edge nutritional guidelines for performance athletes, including the application of periodization to nutrition. * A new look at skills development, including Charles Staley's unique evaluation inventory system (first revealed in Martial Arts Training magazine in 1993). 184 Pages Over 200 photos and dozens of tables and illustrations Price: $19.95 Table of Contents Introduction Chapter 1: Foundation: Principles of Sport Training Chapter 2: Planning: Periodization of Training Chapter 3: Physical Preparation: Muscle Assessment and Training Chapter 4: Nutritional Support for Training Chapter 5: Prevention and Management of Injuries Chapter 6: Technical and Tactical Preparation Chapter 7: Psychological Preparation: Competition Day Resources References Index About the Author Charles Staley Myo Dynamics (800) 519-2492 http://www.myodynamics.com ------------------------------ From: "Mitar or Marko" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:03:22 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Big chests > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:31:35 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: big chests > >> If somebody wants to expend their chest by this method (deep breathing), >> swimming would be more apropriate for sure. > > Not more appropriate for sure, but yes that also works. Depending on the > individual in question, perhaps better, perhaps not as well. Different > people respond differently. > ................. Mr Terry, I agree with you completely that different people respond differently, but I would like to see any person that have been doing squats for, let's say, five years, that has "bigger" chests and the rib cage than someone who has been (properly, of course) swimming or playing water polo for the same period of time. One of the best things (or perhaps the best one) for the correct development of the rib (thoracic) cage is swimming. For expanding the lungs' capacity, and for the development of the whole body, especially in children, too. This is not something I claim, I've read and heard that many times from doctors (especially pediatricians), physical education teachers, etc. My intention is not to continue this discussion, I just personaly deeply believe in this, since it worked on me and many of my friends greatly. There is again that factor "different people, different responses", but on the whole it is the highly reccomended sport or physical activity! Sincerely, Mitar P. S. Mr McDonough, I think it's so great when a person doesn't lose the sense of humor getting elder. Keep up with providing good mood on the list. Thank you! ------------------------------------------------------------ E - mail: tkwd@drenik.net If you want to know anything about Tae Kwon Do, visit us at: http://home.drenik.net/tkwd ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #263 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.