From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #282 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 26 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 282 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Re[2]: TKD List= Close and Careful Scrutiny ! Re: the_dojang: Re: HKD history the_dojang: TKD History article the_dojang: re: Training in Korea vs. US [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 850 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Re[2]: TKD List= Close and Careful Scrutiny ! Jeremy: Thanks. I appreciate your answer. Caveat. I have been advised that Glenn carefully controls who has access to his list. If he kicks you off and you try to get back on, he apparently asks who you are, what Dojang or Martial Arts school you are associated with, your phone number, your school's phone number, your birth certificate, your marriage license, and your driver's license. Based on the foregoing, I have serious difficulty with the conclusion that "someone" is causing flame wars then going back on under a different/ psuedo name. Moreover, since apparently Glenn acts as a Gatekeeper I doubt he would let back the alleged "flamer" on his list. Finally, I am certain you are not having any relations with any Martial Science poster who coincidentally may be a close ally of Glenn. I recall one ally who was asked to post to this list by Glenn. Unfortunately she also posted Glenn's directions. Your are correct. Your list and your the moderator. Your also a nice person. I just provide caution to you. Use a little street wise Chicago moxy on this, OK ? Ken McD... - --- Jeremy Talbott wrote: > a) The problem is that an individual has been signing on the TKD-net > and starting flame wars. As soon as they are being started the person > is deleted only to come back under a different name. > > b) The allegation is that someone is coming on with the soul purpose > of causing problems on the TKD-net. > > c) The person who brought this to our attention was not Glenn but > someone from his list who is a neutral party to all of this BS > > d) No allegations have been made as to who the coulprit is or if he is > part of our list or DD or anywhere else. > > e) I wish to keep the name undisclosed as the person is a neutral > party in the whole thing. But be sure that I do find the person > trustworthy enough to know that it isn't someone trying to start > problems with us. > > f) See B > > g) Since I don't have copies of TKD-net, I can answer this one. > Furthermore I did not have sexual relations with that intern. 8?) > > This all I have to give you as far as answers. As I am the "owner" of > this list, I will handle everything from here on out so this does not > need to cause any of you to loose any sleep. (as if it would). I > understand your need to know due to past relations and it is no secret > that Glenn has a lot of non-friends who would like nothing more than > to do these type of things. However, we are not one of those people. > > I will keep you informed on events as they occured. > > Jeremy > Once we discover a common ground, the walls of difference begin to fall. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 9:06:58 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: HKD history > Very interesting article. When was it written (I went to the roundhouse > site but couldn't find it)? Couldn't find the site or couldn't find the article? The article was one of the first that the site had available, perhaps a year or so ago. They also had an article on the history of TKD, which I will also re-post to the list. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 9:10:00 PDT Subject: the_dojang: TKD History article As promised... Ray _____________________________________________________________ (from www.roundhousemag.com) THE HISTORY OF TAEKWONDO The origins of taekwondo begin with a serious falling out between militaristic Japan and China, the first world superpower, after which the island kingdom of Okinawa became one of the few points of contact between the two nations. The Okinawans preserved an uneasy relationship with the Japanese mainland, while at the same time maintaining an embassy in Mainland China. To encourage the Okinawans to remain independent, Chinese masters taught the them some rudiments of Chinese martial art. This new teaching invigorated the native Okinawan fighting arts, and the resulting hybrids grew strong. The Okinawans were taught fairly simple chuan'fa (a Chinese term meaning 'fist way') which they culturally patterned into 'Ryu Kyu Kempo' ('Okinawan Fist-way') and later, 'Karate' ('Way of the Tang Hand' - where 'Tang' relates to a Chinese dynasty characterised by strong martial art). Gradually the climate between Okinawa and Japan changed for the better and the Japanese invited the Okinawans to send a karate teacher to Tokyo. Gichin Funakoshi was an Okinawan pioneer who motivated many people to study karate, amongst whom were quite a few Koreans. These subsequently returned to Korea and began teaching 'Kong Soo Do', which is the Korean pronunciation of 'Karate-do', or 'Tang Soo Do' (which is the Korean pronunciation of 'Way of the Tang Hand'). By now Japan had invaded Korea, and Korean men were pressed into the Japanese armed forces. The first Korean martial academy of the 20th century was Byung Jick Ro's Tang Soo Do Song Moo Kwan and that was founded on March 11, 1944. Six months later, the Tang Soo Do/Chung Do Kwan was founded by Lee Won Kyuk, but both of these early academies were closed down by the Japanese Occupation. Nonetheless, it was permissible for Koreans to learn Japanese martial art in Japan and for Japanese to teach the Koreans judo, karate, aikido and kendo. So General Choi Hong Hi became a second dan in Shotokan karate under Gichin Funakoshi in Japan, and Hwang Ki learned Kanbukan karate from Koichi Kondo whilst working for the Japanese in Manchuria. Lee Won Kyuk also learned karate from the Japanese. The Choson Yon Moo Kwan was established after World War Two. Its founder was Lee Kyung Suk, and his academy practised judo (the Korean reading of 'judo' is 'yudo'). After the Korean War, this academy became the central dojang of the Korean Yudo Association. The Kwon Bup Bu martial art school was established during September 1947, and taught by Byung In Yoon. However, this academy closed during the Korean War. The Kyo Tong Bu Woo Association was founded and taught by Hwang Ki during 1947 and during 1955, it changed its name to Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do. The Dae Han Che Yook Kwan was established in September 1953 to practise Kong Soo Do under Lee Kyo Yoon, Yoon Kwae Byung and Lee Yong Woo. It later changed its name to 'The Ji Do Kwan'. The Chae Shin Bu was established in 1954 to practise Kong Soo Do under Lee Nam Suk. It later changed its name to 'The Chang Moo Kwan'. The Oh Do Kwan was also founded by General Choi Hong Hi around this time, and during 1955 he began teaching his style of culturally-patterned Korean karate to the Korean Army, teaching it to the non-military from July 1959 onwards. Later schools include the Han Moo Kwan, Jung Do Kwan and Sang Moo Kwan. Because of the understandable post-war hatred between Korea and Japan, none of these kwans ever confessed to teaching Japanese martial art, so they each concocted fantastic and untrue claims that they were teaching the classical Korean fighting art of Soo Bahk, or the peasant fighting system of 'taekyun'. The latter, incidentally, was just the name for brawling, and it was never codified in any way. During 1952, at the height of the Korean War, President Rhee Syngman was so impressed by a display of unarmed combat that he ordered it taught to all serving soldiers. This triggered a struggle for power between the heads of the various kwans. Rising politico-militarist General Choi Hong Hi of the Oh Do Kwan convened a small meeting on 11 April 1955 to unite the various kwans under a common name. General Choi proposed the name 'taekwondo' but though his committee unanimously accepted his name, the kwan leaders did not. It was rejected in favour of 'Tae Soo Do'. It took two more years for General Choi and his Oh Do Kwan to gain enough authority to impose 'taekwondo' on the other kwans and for a time, only his school was pre-eminent. This, of course, led to much bad feeling and this persisted even beyond the formation of the Korean Taekwondo Association on 14 September, 1961. The International Taekwondo Federation (ITF) was formed by General Choi during 1966 and given status through his rise to power within the Korean Government. In 1971 President Park Chung Hee declared taekwondo to be Korea's national sport and allocated funds to build the world headquarters for taekwondo - the Kukkiwon. The Kukkiwon was completed in 1972 and the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) was formed in 1973 with Dr. Kim Un Yong as President. Thus General Choi's stranglehold on taekwondo was broken and he left Korea for Canada. His ITF has gradually declined and is now no longer a major force in the onward march of taekwondo. So 'taekwondo' is an umbrella term devised by General Choi for several different schools of Korean martial art derived from systems taught to the Koreans by the forces of Japanese Occupation. General Choi is the founder of the Oh Do Kwan style of taekwondo and he is father of the name 'taekwondo'. However, taekwondo is no more 'Korean karate' than karate is 'Japanese kung fu'. Each nation culturally patterns the art it receives and makes it its own. Taekwondo is unique to Korea, and it is developing vigorously at this time. We may correctly describe quite recent developments such as Choi Kwang Do and Yun Jung Do as forms of taekwondo. This, then, is the true history of taekwondo! ------------------------------ From: Arthur Lee <7akl3@qlink.queensu.ca> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:31:26 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: re: Training in Korea vs. US hey Ken... "c. I would place the US Seal and Ranger training up against any ROK special forces team." I don't have any knowledge as to how hard the US training is... but i do know how hard the korean training is... i've dabbled in a bit of it myself, and i know a lot of koreans who've come over from korea with stories galore... just a question... how hard is the US SF training?? could they do the same things using a lower level of tech? 1 meal a day?? just wanna know Arthur ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #282 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.