From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 1 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 299 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship the_dojang: Re: Master J.R. West Hapkido Seminar= 29 April 2000 Re: the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 940 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: danny alberts Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:36:27 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 > > From: "Rodney G. Graves" > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:05:31 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #296 > > > > With most of the martial arts I believe you will find what matters > most is the master under whom you study. Agree > As regards Hapkido, It is the art which I study, and I was > fortunate enough to do so under an exceptional master (Alan A. Banks III) > in a small club environment in Seoul. My experience has been > outstanding. I have gone out of my way to continue in the art since > returning to the United States. > > One thing you do need to know is that Hapkido is demanding. You > will spend a lot of time learning how to fall without injury, and a lot of > time in the air after learning to fall safely. You will also get to spend > a fair amount of time launching your fellow students. I agree - I have been in a lot of TKD schools - falling without injury is not emphasized nearly enough. > Hapkido is a complete art, with joint locks and throws from > Aiki-Jujitsu, and the strikes and kicks of Taekwondo. I find myself > physically exhausted and mentally at peace after a good strong session. ???? TKD has lots of joint locks and throws - it is called Hosin-Sul. In fact, General Choi incorporated Hapkido into Taekwon-Do as formal part of curriculum in 1969. He worked with Master Chung, Kee Tae worked to get curriculum developed and published into General Choi's 1972 edition of "Taekwon-Do" - and every edition since. HoSin-Sul (self-defense) is comprised of Hapki-Do (about 60%), Yudo, kicks. Not trying to be negative, but perhaps your TKD teachers did not understand the curriculum as well as they should have... My question for you. What makes an art "a complete martial art"? Taekwon, dalberts ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:00:12 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship Sir, There is a group of senior black belts that oversee the ITF. A prime example of this was last years ITF Senior World Championships. Gen. Choi wanted them to be in Poland. In fact the Polish NGB spent a small fortune on promotional material and had the sport of Gen. Choi. However, the Congress of the ITF (yes, there is one and yes they do keep an eye on things) picked Argentina! Gen. Choi was somewhat surprised but the games were held in Argentina. (Next year in Italy!) Not a very good dictator! How about we pick on a non-Korean martial art for a while? How about Brazil? Regards Robert Martin From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:28:40 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: General dictatorship Actually dictator probably does fit. This is the case with most one-man or family arts, the current head is in total and complete charge. No board of directors that can overrule, as in a company. No judicial or legislative branch that can overrule, as in a democracy. I've been in, and I'm still in, single-head arts. Depending on the person in charge, it can work just fine. But I think we've about beat this thread into the ground. Perhaps we should go back to arguing about Hapkido or Kuk Sool or, I know, we should beat on those HwaRangDo guys for awhile... Or maybe those Soo Bahk Do wimps... :) Ray "Jokes-R-Us" Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:08:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master J.R. West Hapkido Seminar= 29 April 2000 > From: Ken McDonough > Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 06:40:04 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master J.R. West Hapkido Seminar= 29 April 2000 > I attended one or two Kuk Sool Won seminars in California. My > disappointment was that the seminar taught me nothing new. GM In Yuk Suh > merely discussed pressure points on the arm and how Korean names are > spelled. Then we did the same forms we did in class. For a seminar fee I > wanted to learn something new that was not spelled out in the infamous > outlined curriculum. > > It sounds like your experience was better. OK, so this makes sense to me. I think I probably had a better experience with it because I was coming in knowing less. While we discuss pressure points in our studio, in that we are always taught where we should be aiming, we don't spend time going through them systematically, naming them, discussing which lines they are on and what those lines are associated with. So that part of the discussion was interesting to me. After that we worked in a more focused way on specific parts of the curriculum and falling techniques, so overall I considered it worth the seminar fee. > You may not agree but Kuk Sool Won and Hapkido are extremely similar. The only exposure I've had to Hapkido was through a Taekwondo school I was in where the headmaster would teach HKD techniques as a kind of 'elective', long ago. He taught sohn mohk soo, ahn sohn mohk soo, and ki cho hyung, so things actually did look a little familiar when I started Kuk Sool. Anyway, at the risk of offending some Kuk Sool masters, I actually believe you - I have no in-depth first-hand knowledge, but the impression I've gotten from discussions here is that they are pretty closely related. > In contrast, I enjoyed Master West's seminar for a number of reasons: > ... > > f. Master West and his staff treated all belt levels equally and wanted you > to enjoy learning new techniques, understanding the concepts of motion, > understanding how your opponent will react, and imparting knowledge to > help you extrapolate the principles into the technique. I definitely wish I could have been there and I can see how, from your description of it, it was a very worthwhile event. > I hope the above explains the distinction I was making. It is not an attack > or condemnation of Kuk Sool Won. I am writing from the perspective of a > consumer who has witnessed a martial art presented in a better fashion. > To the latter event, I am grateful to Master West and his instructors. Yep - your response was exactly what I was asking for. I understand that you weren't insulting anything (although nowadays it's always good to repeat that a few times, I guess...), so I'm not offended and I respect your opinions. I'm sure that there are things that a lot of seminar presenters could improve on given Master West's example. - -Thayne ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:02:16 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship > There is a group of senior black belts that oversee the ITF. > ... > Not a very good dictator! Could they replace/retire the General as head of the ITF? If so, then I agree (as if that matters to anyone :). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:11:20 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 > ???? TKD has lots of joint locks and throws - it is called Hosin-Sul. > In fact, General Choi incorporated Hapkido into Taekwon-Do as formal > part of curriculum in 1969. He worked with Master Chung, Kee Tae worked > to get curriculum developed and published into General Choi's 1972 edition > of "Taekwon-Do" - and every edition since. > HoSin-Sul (self-defense) is comprised of Hapki-Do (about 60%), Yudo, kicks. The hoshinsul shown in the Gen's books comes from the Chung Do Kwan (CDK). The General formed his Oh Do Kwan as a sub-kwan of LEE Won Kuk's CDK. This hoshinsul (perhaps 10% to 20% of the HKD syllabus +) was frequently practiced in the dojangs of Korea prior to the late 70s, early 80s. Around that time they began to focus more on sparring and, unfortunately (IMHO), hoshinsul practice (in Korean TKD) fell by the wayside. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: ICyrus8528@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:05:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #297 I appreciate Mr. Albert's discourse on Taekwondo, however, after over 25 years in Taekwondo (and having studied both ITF & WTF styles) and having achieved the level of 6th Dan, and having training both in S. Korea and in the U.S., I regard GM Lee, Won Guk as the true father of Korean Taekwondo. Remember, the only thing that changes are the names we give things. GM Lee founded the first martial arts gym, the Chung Do Kwan in post-war S. Korea. GM Son Duk Son succeeded him as the head of the Chung Do Kwan. Gen. Choi Hong Hi, and I could be wrong, was a member of that gym. Furthermore, he was promoted to the rank of honorary 4th Dan only to have it recinded because he was taking liberties with the direction of the art not befitting his status. Now, I agree that he, Gen Choi, despite his early history, has made significant contributions to what we now know as Taekwondo, but I suspect that he was able to accomplish this due to his military and political power. Does anyone care to have this conversation move in this direction? BTW, I don't mind being corrected. Ian A. Cyrus ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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