From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 2 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 301 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: USTU question the_dojang: RE: Teaching your own kids the_dojang: Hapkido congratulations the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 the_dojang: re: Oh Do Kwan& Song Moo Kwan the_dojang: Jhoon Rhee - ITF the_dojang: Ritalin addictive ? RUBBISH!! the_dojang: Agree to disagree the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship the_dojang: Fwd: Review of Master J.R. West's Hapkido Seminar--29 April 2000 the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo and Hapkido Kicks [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 940 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Martin Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:22:49 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: USTU question I hope somebody on the list could help with a question on USTU membership. I received an email from an ITF 2nd dan in the United States. (They know that I am in contact with members of the WTF, etc. and also know that I am descreate(sp).) This young man would like to make a run at the Olympics the next time around or the time after that (he is only 16 or so - I think - now). He doesn't want to give up his ITF/USTF status in order to do this. I wondered what the USTU rules were on this and didn't really see anything on their web site. I need to check with USTF headquaters to get our rules on this. (I know we had some folks try several years ago but don't know what happened to them.) Thanks in advance, Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:49:54 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Teaching your own kids This was a bad experince for me and my kids. I suggest you find someone else to train your son. Just didn't work. Regards, Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:47:12 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido congratulations Mr. Tomlinson, Congratulations on your recent promotion. I just read your post referring to something that was written and you made a statement "How can somebody be promoted to 8th Dan in Hapkido in only 10 years." The answer is They Can't! After 35 years of devotion to Martial Arts training and almost 30 of those being spent in Hapkido, I have come to realize that they're those that will do numerous things to gain the recognition that they need to sell their association. Don't waste valuable training time on these people. Train hard, stay true to your teacher and enjoy life to it's fullest. When all is said and done these people will move on to what ever the Martial fade of the week happens to be, allowing us to continue to grow and share our true love Hapkido. It is not always easy to be a Good Finder. If nothing else gain satisfaction in knowing that you practice a Martial Art that others find so appealing that they will do what ever it takes (short cuts, pay outrageous promotional fees, fabricate their martial arts history) and in the end they will be no closer to the truth. Their pockets will be lighter too and this is probably the closes to enlightenment that they will ever come. I'm sorry that I rambled on I just finished teaching my 07:00 hours class and read your post. Once again congratulations and tell Master Nabors hello. Until next time train to live and live train. Straight Mind, Straight Body, Total Concentration. Kwan Jang Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:20:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I don't know how widely this is known, but I am told that if Mr. >Choi >were to enter his former homeland he would be arrested and jailed > >immediately. How does this square with Dave Steffan saying he was in South Korea in 1999? >> I don't know about this 1999 visit, but I am eager to learn more about it. It certainly comes as a surprise to me as I have it from several reliable ITF sources that the former general held "persona non grata" status in the ROK. Perhaps Choi received a pardon from the current president Kim - himself an opposition party leader who knows of the heavy-handedness of his nations former administrations. Of course with the North Korean ice beginning to show signs of a thaw in policy towards the West and gestures of cooperation towards reunification of families separated since 1950 being made, Choi visiting the ROK would be more plausible now than at any time since his exile. I, for one, hope the 'news' of his visit turns out to be true. Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: danny alberts Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:31:13 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 > ------------------------------ > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:22:25 PDT > Subject: Re: the_dojang: Gen Choi vs GM Lee, Won Guk as TKD founder > > >In order to unify under a single Korean name, the general strongly proposed and > >they finally accepted the naem Taekwon-Do. This was when the Korean Taekwon-Do > >Association was formed. > > I thought the first single Korean name was Tae Soo Do. The Korean Tae Soo > Do Association was formed a year or so prior to the Korean Taekwondo Assoc. > You are absolutely right - at least to what I publish on my website at www.taekwon-do.org or specifically at http://lamar.colostate.edu/~tkdo/ExamStudies.html. This is stuff I am also expecting my students to learn. BTW: - read through it - they are my notes of research I conduct - if I am incorrect somewhere - let me know. I merely ask for credible documentation to rebutt. In my last post, perhaps I spoke to quickly and posted an inaccurism. General Choi presided over the KTA, originally the Korea Tae Soo Do Association, and got the Assembly to change name to Korea Taekwon-Do Association. Again, for the reasons of providing a Korean name to the art and to unify the arts under one name. Good catch. Why yes, Mr. Terry - I do study under Mr. Steffen. In fact, you have already met my wife at a seminar that I could not attend. Would like to meet you though. dalberts ------------------------------ From: danny alberts Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:36:29 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 > ------------------------------ > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:29:36 PDT > Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship > > > Probably not, but neither could the same be done with 90% of Presidents > > of businesses in the US either. > > I believe that a company's Board of Directors can always hire/fire the Office > of the President. Perhaps that is primarily w/publically held companies. ?? > not trying to beat this horse much more, but my only concern is the abuse of the word dictator when applied to General Choi. Now that you agree that most American companies, which are privately held and run, do not have an controlling board of directors, would you say that all of their owner/presidents are dictators? If so, then I have no response. However, I believe most of them are people who try to get along with their employees and business colleages and do care how they are perceived. My point is that there must be a better word for dictator, just as there is a better word for our political system than democracy, which it rarely is. (BTW: that word is republic - and there is a big difference). - -dalberts > > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:43:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Or can you compete in the USTU nationals and not be a Kukkiwon BB? Last I knew that was a requirement (according to my old teacher at Purdue). >> Kukkiwon certification is not required to compete in a USTU event; it might just be unlawful to do so under the US Amateur Sports Act of 1978. Certification, however, IS a requirement to compete in a WTF sanctioned event, which is why the USTU strongly recommends that competitive athletes pursue such certification. The Union will assist an athlete who qualifies for a WTF sanctioned meet in obtaining one in a hurry so that they may represent the US as they have earned the right to do. SESilz ------------------------------ From: danny alberts Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:48:28 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 > > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 20:35:22 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: Song Moo Kwan or Chung Do Kwan > > >As it may surprise those of you who know that I teach Moo Duk Kwan, I hold a > >sixth dan in Chung Do Kwan. As far as I know, Choi did study at the CDK, but > >Lee Won Kuk would not be the father of Taekwondo. Lee, Won Kuk's art is Chung > >Do kwan, and for a brief period was actually called Tae Soo Do Chung Do Kwan. > >Personally when I taught "Taekwondo" I never used the name Taekwondo, only > >the name Chung Do Kwan. > > > >Choi, is indeed the father of Taekwondo as he created the name Taekwondo, and > >pursuant to his own words, used the name because of its similarity to the art > >of Taek Kyun. > > However, GM LEE Won-kuk claims the title of Father of Taekwondo (see the > interview w/him in Taekwondo Times). He claims that he gave the name to > Gen. Choi. That and since the Oh Do Kwan was under the Chung Do Kwan, that > he (GM Lee) should be considered the Father of TKD. Regardless of who first > came up with the name, IMHO it was Gen. Choi's power and influence in > President Rhee's Korea that gave TKD a strong start. Yes? Mr. Terry, So, here we have conflicts by statement from colorization of memory. General Choi states in TKD Times that he created the name (1/2000). Other than what you just wrote, I have not read differently (can you send me the date of your issue of the TKD Times to which you are referring?). - ----- Even so, maybe we are speaking of another difference here - that is cultural. Let me explain. If someone in this country invents something that looks, sounds, and acts like a blender - but someone else names it - who would we consider the founder of the blender. I ask this question because of some other credible information I have been trying unsuccessfully to track down on Hapkido. Most of my reading states that Choi, Yong Sul founded Hapkido. But I have a student that insists it was Ji, Han Jae. My research indicates that Hapkido was founded in the early to mid 1920's, when Doju Nim (yes, I know the title means founder) was only a child. So I asked my student to explain. He told me that Ji, Han Jae gave the name to Choi, Yong Sul when he (Jae) was indeed a child - therefore he is considered the founder. True? False? I have a hard time accepting this information - please forward me something that sounds more credible to my American mind. dalberts ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:56:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I've been to several USTU tournaments (in Indiana and Illinois) where "judges who were all promoted under a democratic leadership" (i.e., the WTF) made some pretty bad and biased calls. >> Indeed, people make mistakes. Judges are people. Therefore judges make mistakes. Personally, I hate it when they occur, but errors are a fact of life. This is not a Not a "flame," but what make you so certain that you were not the person who misjudged the matches you have referenced. After all, while utterly human, at least The USTU Referee is formally trained on an ongoing basis, ascending from a non-certified level, to various levels of state and national referees. The WTF then further trains them through 3 levels of International performance. On the other hand, can you explain the training you have received on how to score or judge a WTF taekwondo match? Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:02:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It was also his goal and dream to get TKD into the Olympics. >> IS this really true, Master Terry? In several interviews I read, Mr. Hong Hi Choi spoke adamantly against taekwondo's inclusion in the Olympics. He said that would destroy taekwondo as a martial art. Or was he just eating sour grapes because it was not HIS taekwondo organization that received the recognition of the IOC? Curiously, SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:04:50 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It could also be that the WTF allegedly was going to revoke the visas of the Korean instructors who were overseas if they didn't join >> Are you sure about this? The WTF is an International Sports Federation which is recognized by the International Olympic Committee as the worldwide governing body for taekwondo. It has no authority to either grant or revoke a Korean's visa. Furthermore, masters who leave Korea and establish thenmseves in a 'new' country often become citizens of their new homeland. I know this is true here in the US, especially if they have the desire to move up in the USTU's structure which requires US Citizenship to to compete in national events and to run for any elected State or National office. The claim of the WTF revoking visas of non-joiners sure seems dubious to me. It ranks right up there with the 1970s rumpor that the WTF was working under cover with the KCIA in a program placing Korean masters around the world as a spy network. It was alleged that the ROK government, through their CIA, was paying these masters for their espinage work and that thier dojangs existed merely to help with their "cover stories." Anyone else hear this one? Secret Agent Man Gregg Kailian, where are you; we need you on this one? SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:21:30 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << This probably has something to do with the WTF's inclusion in the Olympics. >> Indeed, Dr. Kim's prominence, and a unanimous vote of the whole world's delegates to the IOC's September 1994 General Assembly Meeting had something to do with taekwondo's Olympic acceptance. Absloutely true. SES ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:19:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300 In a message dated 5/1/00 10:25:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I would like to hear from those of you who have taught your own child(ren) and other children. >> Didn't Ernie Reyes, Sr. teach his own son Ernie Reyes, Jr. ? And that turned out well. Illona ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:27:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #292 In a message dated 4/28/00 8:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << By the way, from the rest of yout post it DOES seem like you have a problem regarding "unquestioning loyalty" to Gen. Choi (see your Arlene Limas statement below). >> Nowhere in my post did I write that "unquestioning loyalty" top one's master is not a good thing. I'm all for it. Extreme belief in one's master allows the student to accomplish feats he/she might never have even attempted in absence of such extreme loyalty. Loyalty between master and student, and student to master, also brings great strength to one's dojang, and, I believe to its members. ------------------------------ From: HwarangTSD@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 05:05:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: re: Oh Do Kwan& Song Moo Kwan Mr. Terry, I am digging out my research materials to provide my source to you. But you are right in that Tae Soo Do was the first unified name much to choi's chagrin. In a recent TKDT interview, he himself admitted that. As a matter of fact, in Grandmaster Sell's book on TKD CDK there is a picture of him , doing a side kick if memory serves, beside a sign indicating it was a ji kwon serving the US AF, and was clearly marked in english Tae Soo Do Chung Do Kwan. Also, if memory serves the oh do kwan was not created as part of the Chung Do Kwan, or even a break a way style. Choi, indicated in his interview that he created the Oh Do Kwan, School of my way, so that instructors from any kwan may teach there. This kwan according to him, was meant to service primarily armed forces personnel. This was in the same interview with Choi. Not to be offensive, but I would encourage taking a grain of salt when reading some of these books and articles. Its been awahile since I looked at Tang Soo Do Vol. 1, but many tang soo do stylists believe that the Kicho/Pyong ahn sets are of a chinese origin. This can not be true as they were created by a genlteman named Itosu who was def. not Korean or Chinese. There are many points of error and contention withing the Korean Arts Histories. When I consulted the Hopological Society for assistance in some of these matters, what came back was no reliable source, all sources tainted by nationalism, with little provable fact behind them. Just be careful. I think that the only way we will truly figure it out is by doing what we are doing. Thanks, sorry for the length, Master Frank Clay ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:02:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Jhoon Rhee - ITF Yes... GM Jhoon Rhee is or at least was ITF...I still have the full set of his earlier books on all of the ITF Hyungs. I am also aquainted with some of the Master Instructors in his system and they all practice the ITF Hyungs. However, he openly states that he does not and will not associate with or claim ties to General Choi (he stated such very adamantly at a seminar I attended). The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "j.park" Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:01:28 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Ritalin addictive ? RUBBISH!! From: Morgan Kochel Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:51:52 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Still on Drugs > This response is specifically for Mark G, who refuses to teach kids on any > drugs. Even if the drugs are a prescription for behavior. Would you teach a > diabetic child? Insulin is a drug. I have also been to a school where there > was more than one child on drugs. One child was on Pain medication because she > was dieing of cancer but did not want to quit class. She said it was the only > thing that got her mind of of cancer. Would you refuse to teach her? She was > on pain medication that make advil look like a placebo. Oh, come on, folks. THINK! Read the previous posts! It's not that Ritalin is a drug -- it's that it's a MOOD-ALTERING ADDICTIVE DRUG. It alters behavior dramatically, and not in a healthy way. Peace, Morgan Ritalin is not addictive! I have a 8 year old nephew who parents have been told he has ADHD and at first was not put on Ritalin, but his attention span got ever increasingly worse so the doctors put him on to Ritalin, ever since his attention span has increased ever so slightly but at least it has not got worse. He only takes his tablet when he goes to school or for a day out, ie when his mam whats him to be on his BEST behaviour. however on over days he does not take any tablets and there is no side effects or withdrawl symptoms. So how can you say Ritalin is addictive. The school to which Gary, my nephew attends only allows childrens with ADD or ADHD to attend if they have taken their tablet. ADHD has affected Gary so that the Local Education Authourity along with Garys parents are considering sending Gary to a special needs school. If this disorder on its own was not bad enough Gary also has the bone structure of a 4year old when infact he is 8 and he also has very bad asthma. ------------------------------ From: Robert Martin Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 06:22:04 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Agree to disagree To the list members, I had a long post put together about Gen. Choi, Taekwon-do, etc. that I was going to post this morning. I've decided instead to respect Master Terry's "request" and put this thread to rest for now. I'm writing this before I receive the first mornings digest and will try hard not to reply to anything related to this subject in it. I think we can all agree the origins of a Martial Art produce strong emotions in people. I know that the subject of TKD and Gen. Choi do in me. There has been much information posted by this group on the subject. I think its time for us to agree that we disagree and move on to other topics. I would like to thank Master Terry for providing a forum for this kind of discussion. I feel that I can post here without fear of personal "attack". The vast majority of list members seem to be honest, caring martial artists that have a desire to improve the lives of people from all over the world. The truth of the matter is that most of our students care little for the politics of the martial arts. Regards Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:25:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: RE: General dictatorship Danny Alberts wrote: << > Could they replace/retire the General as head of the ITF? > > If so, then I agree (as if that matters to anyone :). > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Probably not, but neither could the same be done with 90% of Presidents of businesses in the US either. >> Presidents of businesses are SUPPOSED to be dictators. Presidents of fraternal organizations are not. If the ITF is a business, then there's nothing derogatory to be said about Gen. Choi's running of the business. If it's supposed to be a fraternal organization of people who have come together for the advancement of Taekwondo, then perhaps those who choose to join the organization should think twice about how the system works. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Fwd: Review of Master J.R. West's Hapkido Seminar--29 April 2000 For interested readers I provide a brief review of the Master J.R. West Hapkido seminar presented at the Global Hapkido Dojang, Hampstead, Maryland, on 29 April 2000. The children's seminar was held from 8:30 am to 10:30 am. The children's seminar was primarily conducted by Mrs. West, an adept Hapkidoist. At the conclusion of the children's seminar several certificates, primarily Black Belt certificates, were provided to various local school students. Master West, Mrs. West, and Master West's students provided a brief demonstration on self-defense techniques. Note: When I first met Master West he advised me to look at his black belts to see the type of training they received. The level of training was apparent. I was later informed that all of the techniques "thrown" at the teaching assistants were not rehearsed and were unplanned. Hence, as discussed below--it is the concept that comes into play versus rote memorization of a technique applied to a certain part of one's body or clothing. Master West began the Adult Seminar by discussing general principles of Hapkido, re: that basic motion does not change even if the types of techniques taught to you change. He also discussed concepts of "getting low" on your throws, watching your opponents hips and shoulders, and the importance of practicing the techniques by yourself in order to understand that the motion will remain the same (note: practicing with an opponent is not excluded). The latter concept parallels the previous discussions on the importance of repitition, i.e., muscle-memory. Having not practiced Hapkido or Kuk Sool Won for several years I had to initially take it slow. Then the brain started to recall the concepts and I began to flow a little better. My son, Sean, was doing better than me (not bad for a kid who initially did not want to go to the seminar). I was ably assisted by Master West and his instructors. Admittedly, I liked the visuals that helped me roll into the techniques. One on occasion I had the correct hand placement on a choke hold. However, I was uncertain of the direction I should be going with my hands. Master West did a neat hand placement visual and told me to follow the placement of his hand and follow the motion he was outlining. Duh, it clicked ! This approach is similar to the good ski instructors I have met when rushing down the Sierras at Lake Tahoe (e.g., "Ken, place those knees together and hold that dollar bill tightly between your knees...that's it you got it"). This type of instruction in martial arts is often lacking. Often, but not always, you are taught a technique. However, you are not taught the underlining concept or rationale of the technique. You merely follow the technique and just do it from a copying modality. Maybe you will understand the concept ? Master West taught a large range of techniques including JiAbSool (pressure point attacks), EuiBokSool (clothing grabs), SonMokSool (wrist techniques), and PaBoSool (basic techniques). He demonstrated each technique with several of his students and assistants. He then requested that we practice the technique with our partners. Master West and his assistants then walked around the Dojang circulating among the students practicing the technique. Corrections, suggestions, and additional tips were provided. Master West threw in a few higher level techniques that I thought were easy but extremely effective. I liked his analysis on choking, re: "Remember, when someone is choking you...we choke better..." He then demonstrated a few techniques to defend against an individual choking you. In sum, the seminar was a great learning environment. Participants were encouraged to learn the principles behind the techniques. Concepts were the key cornerstone of the seminar. As I previously noted, it was a nice day to spend a lovely Spring day. A nice day to spend with a martial artist who has spent years refining his art and willing to share his love of the art to others. Thanks Master West, Mrs. West, and the additional instructors. Sincerely, Ken McDonough P.S. Master West liked the 1957 Chevy photos I showed him. He gave a "resounding thumbs up" to the Chevy. So there ! ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:30:14 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo and Hapkido Kicks > I did this for the other writer who said that Taekwon-Do offered the kicks to Hapki-Do, but not vice versa. (Of course, they all share a lot - common roots and finally, non-secretive training). < I didn't catch the original post so I don't know the entire context for this comment, but it's always been my impression that originally, Taekwondo kicks consisted only of the front kick, the side kick and the roundhouse kick, while Hapkido had many more kicks, at least since the HKD kicking curiculum was finalized in the early '60s by GMs Ji HanJae and Kim MooWoong. In Korea, lots of folks go back and forth between Taekwondo and Hapkido and this was how, I assumed, the Hapkido kicks moved into Taekwondo. I believe there is lots more direct Taekkyon influence on Hapkido than there is on Taekwondo, but this is based on what I've always been taught and not any personal research I've done. When I first studied Hapkido, we were told that a Taekwondo kicker throws the kick out fast and brings it right back, but that a Hapkido kicker throws the kick out and holds it there. I remember when a very good TKD man joined our dojang. One day we were doing roundhouse kicks against the heavy bag. When this guy hit the heavy bag, he'd make a very loud impressive SLAP that filled the whole room, but when we did it there was no big sound (though we moved the bag more than he did). The HKD guys couldn't figure out how he was doing it. I pointed out that he was hitting the target and then retracting immediately, like a whip. By the way, this guy was really impressive. I think I found out what he did for a living when I saw him coming out of the red light district in ChungRyangRi one day while waiting for a bus. In America we say a criminal or a thug wouldn't have the patience to seriously study and master a martial art, but in Asia I guess there are lots of gangpae or gangsters who take their martial arts very seriously. One day the master and his senior guys were planning what to do for a demonstration. This guy, very casually like it was no big thing at all, asked one of the other blackbelts to hold a board behind him, high over his head, facing sideways. Just like it was no big thing, he does a really high spinning outside crescent kick and breaks the board behind him and lands facing front. The master and the other senior guys are going 'mmmm, I don't know, what do you think?', but I'm standing there with my jaw on the ground. Jesse ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.