From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #304
Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Precedence:
The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 2 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 304
In this issue:
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #302
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299
the_dojang: re: Uniforms
the_dojang: Napa Valley Taekwondo Open
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Pil Seung!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:30:40 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299
In a message dated 5/1/00 5:22:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> In fact the Polish NGB spent a small fortune on promotional
> material and had the sport of Gen. Choi.
Dear Readers:
FYI the term "NGB" or National Governing Body, is reserved for the agency
that governs a sport under the Olympic-recognized International Federation
(or IF) for that sport.
The WTF is the recognized IF for taekwondo by the IOC and GAISF (or
General Assembly of International Sport Federations). The "Polish NGB" for
taekwondo therefore would be the Polish Taekwondo Federation (see: Worldsport > Government house > Directory on the
WTF's website)
Personally, unless things are really mixed up in Poland, I don't see how
Master Hong Hi Choi, or his juniors, could have any authority over what the
Polish NGB for taekwondo does.
On the note of reserved titles, here are a few more examples of what I
mean:
In America, only the USTU may call its national championships the "U.S.
National Championships." Organizations other than the NGB must use a title
like the "ATA U.S. National..." or the "USNTF National..." The same is true
for world events. The WTF can and does use the title "World Taekwondo
Championship," while the ITF must use verbiage like, "The ITF World Taekwondo
Event."
These titles are actually protected by law to avoid misleading the public.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:40:41 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #300
In a message dated 5/1/00 10:25:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> I thought the first single Korean name was Tae Soo Do. The Korean Tae Soo
> Do Association was formed a year or so prior to the Korean Taekwondo Assoc
This is true in my books as well, Ray, circa 1961 - '62.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:49:46 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301
In a message dated 5/2/00 8:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> This young man would like to make a run at the Olympics the
> next time around or the time after that (he is only 16 or so - I think -
> now). He doesn't want to give up his ITF/USTF status in order to do this
People:
For the nth time: Any US Citizen may compete in a USTU sanctioned event
provided that he/she registers for the USTU in that year. Naturally they
must compete under the WTF/USTU rule structure. You do not have to renounce
Jesus, nor your old martial arts affiliations, if any. You don't even need
to have studied martial art. All you must do to make the Olympic team is 1.
Register with the USTU, and 2. defeat everyone else in your weight class.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:54:31 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #301
In a message dated 5/2/00 8:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> However, GM LEE Won-kuk claims the title of Father of Taekwondo
For the record, I have heard Master Son Duk Sun claim patriarchy over
taekwondo, as well.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:12:36 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #302
In a message dated 5/2/00 10:18:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> Question: Is the WTF certification issued only on the basis of someone
> sparring
> by WTF rules or are there other requirements for the rank that must be met
In response to this most fair question:
The way it works if a US Citizen who does not hold rank in the WTF wins
at US Team Trials, thus earning a spot on the US Team is that the USTU
applies for a temporary first dan certificate from the Kukkiwon to ensure the
eligibility for he/she to compete in a WTF event like World Cup, or World TKD
Championships.
Winning Team Trials is considered sufficient proof that this person's
sparring ability is more than adequate for a black belt. Within six months,
however, this person must test and show competence with all the color-belt
poomsae called Tae Geuk, for the black belt certificate to become permanent.
This process both ensures that any American may represent his/her country
to the world, AND maintains the artistic (poomsae) requirements for the black
belt, as well.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:41:21 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
In a message dated 5/2/00 3:29:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> Also,
> the USTU is a newer organization, supplanting the AAU as WTF
representative
> I have heard.
This is not true. The truth, however, is a bit confusing. Here goes:
The Sole Representative of WTF in America is now known as the USTU, which
was founded in 1974 (by Dr, Ken Min of Berkeley, who became its first
president) as the National Amateur Athletic Union Taekwondo Committee
(NAAUTC). This organization's name was changed to the National Amateur
Athletic Union Taekwondo Union (NAAUTU) in 1981. At this time, taekwondo was
a "Group C" sport of the US Olympic Committee, meaning it had "developmental
status" and was being watched for readiness for Pan AM or Olympic Games
inclusion.
Finally, upon becoming an official event of the Pan-Am Games (by vote of
PASO) in 1984 (for inclusion the '87 Games and beyond) the NAAUTU moved out
of AAU House in Indianapolis, IN, and into the U.S. Olympic Complex in
Colorado Springs gaining representation to the USOC. Accordingly, at this
juncture the NAAUTU was reincorporated as the USTU.
Later, I believe in the late '80s, several individuals founded a new AAU
taekwondo program. Upon its petition to do so, this new AAU program was
admitted as a Group B Member of the USTU in 1997.
And that's the truth. Complicated enough?
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:46:21 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
In a message dated 5/2/00 3:29:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> ou called him a dictator and implied that
> was the reason he found acceptance in the DPRK. I could be wrong but these
> statements do not seem to be positive.
I believe the ITF to have been run by one man's order since its
formation. Would you prefer the word "autocrat?"
However, If that is no longer true, and the ITF is governed by a
democratic council or board, than I indeed owe the former general an apology.
SESilz
------------------------------
From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:53:30 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
In a message dated 5/2/00 3:29:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:
> From: "Farral, Kim G"
> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:35:44 -0500
> Subject: the_dojang: Military Rank Protocol
>
> "Mr. Connelly...
>
> I am not sure how recent your information is on ranks in the
> military and I agree with what you have stated, some clarification needs to
> be added to your statements...If you read my post towards the bottom of
> Digest #297 you will find that a one star is a General Brigadier General,
> but General all the same...
Now I'm really confused. So, was Mr. Hong Hi Choi actually a General in
the ROK Army, or not?
And, if he was indeed a General, does he, or does he not loose that title
upon his exile from the ROK?
SESilz
------------------------------
From: "Jason Swanson"
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:21:44 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303
>>From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com
>>Subject: the_dojang: new thread---Uniforms
>>I know the basic dobok has usually been plain white, but I am curious what
kinds of uniforms >>members on this list wear, colors of them, student vs.
BB or Instrucor unif., and perhaps a history of >>the development of the
uniform, whether historically significant or just a dojang trait.
In my association we wear the white "cross over top" uniform with one patch
on each breast and the school name sink screened on the back and the persons
name in korean on the lapel. Gup Student uniforms are all white. Black
belt students have black trim around the bottom edge of the unifrom top,
similar to ITF trim. Instructors have black trim on the lapel, not on the
bottom of the uniform. Masters have the instructors uniform top, plus a
black stripe on the pant legs.
Jason Swanson
4th Dan TKD
Lincoln, NE
------------------------------
From: burdickd
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:23:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #299
Dalberts wrote:
> > ???? TKD has lots of joint locks and throws - it is called Hosin-Sul.
> > In fact, General Choi incorporated Hapkido into Taekwon-Do as formal
> > part of curriculum in 1969. He worked with Master Chung, Kee Tae worked
> > to get curriculum developed and published into General Choi's 1972 edition
> > of "Taekwon-Do" - and every edition since.
> > HoSin-Sul (self-defense) is comprised of Hapki-Do (about 60%), Yudo, kicks.
Ray responded:
> The hoshinsul shown in the Gen's books comes from the Chung Do Kwan (CDK).
> The General formed his Oh Do Kwan as a sub-kwan of LEE Won Kuk's CDK. This
> hoshinsul (perhaps 10% to 20% of the HKD syllabus +) was frequently practiced
> in the dojangs of Korea prior to the late 70s, early 80s. Around that time
> they began to focus more on sparring and, unfortunately (IMHO), hoshinsul
> practice (in Korean TKD) fell by the wayside.
Sorry Ray, but you're wrong on this one. The stuff in Gen. Choi's
1965 book is TKD but in his 1972 book, the material on hoshinsul was
replaced largely by hapkido performed by Kee-Tae Chung. Chung explains
in a recent interview that performing this service was how he convinced
Gen. Choi that he was a good t'aekwondo man and should be allowed to
continue practicing in Toronto even though Jong-Soo Park (Choi's chosen
representative for the region) had arrived in the city. What is hilarious
is that the section begins: "These techniques are not only the most
interesting in Taekwon-Do but also the most advanced." (page 465)
That is to say, the hapkido part of tkd was the most interesting and
most advanced. Ouch! There are some differences on what he does
for tkd and hkd though. In the tkd book, he only goes to the ground
when executing a judo (yudo) style throw, not a jointlock. In his
_Hapkido_ book (1984), he shows the finish moves after the jointlocks.
Yours in the arts,
Dakin Burdick
burdickd@indiana.edu
------------------------------
From: HwarangTSD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:38:00 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: re: Uniforms
The unform code that we have is as follows. Tang Soo Do students wear a white
y-neck uniform. The patches on the uniforma are Korea Tang Soo Do Moo Duk
Kwan society over the heart, flags on the sleeves. If they are part of a
special team or they have attained academic achievement they wear this on the
right chest. Black belts may way either black or midnight blue, and the trime
on the dobak must match the belt. Instructors must have a midnight blue belt
for all formal events.
The Taekwondo Code is similar cept the following, v-neck uniforms black belts
wear a black v, cdk or kta logo over heart, and of course the belt is black.
We do not use bars or other special media to denote rank on our belts except
in korean. Titles are used to indicate rank, other than on the midnight blue
belt. All persons 4 dan and better wear the red stripe.
I hope this helps.
Master Frank Clay
------------------------------
From: Ray Terry
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the_dojang: Napa Valley Taekwondo Open
Napa Valley Taekwondo Open
AAU
Pacific Regional Qualifier
Qualify for AAU Nationals or AAU Junior Olympics
June 10, 2000
Ridgeview High School Gymnasium
2447 Old Sonoma Road
Napa, California
Point Sparring
Olympic Sparring
Forms Competition
For more info = 707-252-6236
------------------------------
End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #304
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