From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #308 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 3 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 308 In this issue: the_dojang: re: Belts [MDK] the_dojang: AAU Coaches & Officials Clinic the_dojang: Re: GM Chung Hapkido Book the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Tae Kwon Do, etc. the_dojang: Difference ITF/WTF the_dojang: Re: yes!!! cho dan!!!! the_dojang: i-r-r-e-g-a-r-d-l-e-s-s the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 Re: the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303 UNIFORMS [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 960 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:17:16 PDT Subject: the_dojang: re: Belts [MDK] On Wed, 3 May 2000 HwarangTSD wrote on Belts: > >Traditionally, there was no black belt in the Moo Duk Kwan. It was felt >that >black symbolized perfection. Midnight blue was chosen as a replacement as >it >is close to black. It was thought that this better represented man's >inbility >to be perfect, while representing that he could strive for perfection. > It is my understanding that the Moo Duk Kwan did use black belt until c. 1956 when Navy Blue was introduced. I believe GM Hwang notes that black signified death or stagnation, whereas blue signified growth and the potential to grow[black belts still learning]. I do not know if navy blue was introduced to differentiate between TSD & TKD MDKers, for the stated philosophical difference, or both. Dana ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:44:26 PDT Subject: the_dojang: AAU Coaches & Officials Clinic FYI... Prof. Dewart is the chair of AAU - Pacific Region. His dojang is located in San Francisco. Ray - -------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Dear Fellow Taekwondoist: We had a great event on April 15th with over 300 competitors. As most of you know by now, the Nationals are set for June 28th to July 1st in New Orleans. If you would like to be able to coach or officiate in New Orleans you must be certified locally first and work one local event before you can work Nationals. On Saturday, May 13th from 1 to 6 P.M. we are holding an officials and coaches seminar at my school. The cost of the clinic is $35 for first timers and $20 for a refresher for those previously certified. Rule books will be available for $10 or you can download it for free off of the aautaekwondo.org website. Coaches shirts will be available and they are $15 each. If you are planning on attending please let me know in advance so that I can make certain I have enough materials for everyone. Also if you need a coaches shirt, let me know you correct size so I will have it available. You can e-mail me or call me at (415)864-4827. To satisfy you requirement to work at least one local event, we have organized the AAU NAPA VALLEY OPEN on June 10th. This is being hosted by Mr. Mike Szotkowski and for additional information you can contact him at (707)252-6236. This is always a fun event in wine country. Remember, parents and students can become coaches as long as they are 15 years old or older. Taekwondo experience is not necessary. Well take care. Make your plans for New Orleans early and make sure the students read through their packages thoroughly and answer everything they are expected to answer. They are less tolerant of mistakes nationally than we are locally. Remind them that all white uniforms with no patches, black trim, or any other type of embellishment are allowed at Nationals. Peace. Yours in Taekwondo, Bill Dewart ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: GM Chung Hapkido Book Dakin wrote: > In his > _Hapkido_ book (1984), he shows the finish moves after the jointlocks. Does GM Chung have more than one book? I have the thin paperback (it's kind of dark green/gray) and there aren't too many techniques in it. Jesse ------------------------------ From: danny alberts Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:58:21 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 6:53:47 PDT > Subject: Re: the_dojang: Does changing a name change lineage? > > > 4. ITF techniques are practiced and performed using the sine-wave. > > However there are a great many ITF instructors that don't like or use the > Sine Wave. Seems to mostly be those that have been in the ITF for a very long > time. This appears to be at least one area in which there is some degree > of freedom within the ITF. Really Mr. Terry??... bonafide ITF instructors. Bonafide meaning they have an ITF plaque with number, and answer directly to an ITF Master or GrandMaster. For if they were, they would be doing sine-wave. I would have a very hard time believing you can identify bonafide ITF instructors who do not teach sine-wave. If so, they are not offering their students what they say they are, as their students will never have a chance at competing in ITF-sanctioned regional, national, or international competitions with the hope of success. I believe that what you may be referring to is the breed of instructors, such as a classmate of mine 25 years ago, who was ITF at the time. Then he goes out and opens his own school in a town where there is no ITF influence. They adjust their style and patterns to fit the local martial arts population for tournaments and such, and he still touts himself as being ITF. Greasy salesman for sure. Again, no ITF plaque, no ITF 2nd or 3rd Dan certificates (perhaps now evern 4th), and no answering to anybody who is higher. If you still believe me to be wrong, provide me some names and locations, let me convince myself... dalberts > > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: danny alberts Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:03:46 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 6:59:20 PDT > Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Gen. Choi > > > 4. Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do > > The basic problem, to my mind at least, is that their are two > > martial arts with similar names. > > Umm, looks like the same name to me. Check the hangul, yep, same name. :) good attempt at a joke, Mr. Terry. But the distinction in the English translation is indeed there. Taekwondo prounounced with the kwon syllable emphasized vs. Taekwon with equal emphasis on the Tae and kwon and the Do syllable emphasized. There is indeed a difference in spelling and the philosophy behind. This is why the General insists that his art be called Taekwon-Do. Please re-read my previous post. Not being a reader of Chinese, I understand the same Chinese characters are used to represent Aikido and Hapkido. Shall I return the joke? dalberts ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:23:05 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Tae Kwon Do, etc. In a message dated 5/3/00 6:50:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > 4. Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do > The basic problem, to my mind at least, is that their are two > martial arts with similar names. The art that evolved under Gen. Choi became > Taekwon-Do and is unified under the ITF. The art that evolved under a group > of kwan leaders in South Korea is Taekwondo and is represented by the WTF. > From my own experience it appears that the WTF is a collection of > independent kwans that joined together to create and promote an Olympic > sport. To keep at least a link to the original Taekwon-Do the name was > slightly changed to Taekwondo and Kukkiwon was formed to provide > certification for the group. I don't mean any disrespect to Kukkiwon or WTF > persons. This just appears to be how things are from my own WTF days and how > I see things now. People: What we have here is merely a difference in choices of Romanization, not in meaning. In the Korean Hangul, our art is written (phonetically) using three consonant/vowel combinations (i.e., words). This is why in the 'old days' in the US and in Korea the common English transliteration was: "Tae Kwon Do," with a space between each word. In the past it appeared this way even on the WTF's logo. Past leaders of the USTU decided to combine the 3 words into the compound word: "taekwondo" using the rationale that "baseball, football and basketball" are familiar compound words naming sports and need no spaces or hyphenation separating the "root" words apart. "Taekwondo," as one word, was thought to be simpler and easier for the Westerner to recognize, read and remember. Now, I think, the "taekwondo" spelling is catching on within the WTF and its many affiliates. NOTE: There is no intended philosophical difference between: Tae Kwon Do, TaeKwonDo, Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo, so let's not create one. Remember, Dr, Freud; sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:54:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Difference ITF/WTF Aside from how the ITF and WTF are governed there is but one difference in the technical performance between the two: The ITF system is virtually static. Things are done as they have been done pretty much since the mid 1960s. A kick is done a certain way because that is how it is "supposed to be done," according to the master-text. This compares well with how Shoto Kan is practiced and performed i.e., very classically. One would expect an ITF expert from the year 2020 to perform quite similarly to one from 1970. On the contrary, the WTF system is very dynamic. Things evolve from year to year. Naturally, as the world's top athletes from many nations vie against one-another in competition, the basic techniques have become much more streamlined. In the ring a kick is done how it needs to be done to reach the target rather than exactly how it is defined in a text book. Utility, rather than tradition is what guides progress in the WTF version of taekwondo. Here one would expect a WTF champion from the future to perform quite differently from one from the past. Which system is better? That mostly depends upon whether you wish to study a classical art, or a progressive one. NOTE: The international Olympic Committee considered both systems during the 1970s. In 1980 the IOC formally accepted the WTF system as the one they preferred. Personally, I like the WTF system because I feel that it offers the best of both worlds: the progressiveness of competition sparring, and the classical techniques of poomsae. Of course, this is how I was raised in taekwondo, that is, enjoying the dichotomy of "classical" and "Rock N Roll." To me it is a living example of the Um & Yang. I can't see the point of sparring that requires the employment of less efficient methods such as a deep, wide stance. To me, that is like trying to use a race car from the 1970s to win on a track against modern cars. Even the best racer from the '70s, though it may be more beautiful, is no match for today's hardware. Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:16:30 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: yes!!! cho dan!!!! A hearty congratulations! You must be very proud. Jesse Kim wrote: > The results from the Easter Sunday Kukkiwon first degree black belt tests are in: I made it!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:11:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: i-r-r-e-g-a-r-d-l-e-s-s From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 01:49:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: irregardless, websters has a different opinion :) oh, i wish i could find the discussion we had on this before, master silz....but i cant. it was over a year ago when you plucked this out of a post and stated your opinion on the matter. actually, it is a word according to webster. i believe we've argued.... um... er.... debated this before .....then there was the definition of "nitpick" posted right after it...lol. Dear Literate Readers: Melinda is correct, "irregardles" IS found in Webster's. For those of you who wish to know, here's what Webster's has to say about it: "Irregardless: Non-Standard. Regardless. Usage Note: The label Non-Standard does only approximate justice to the status of irregardless. More precisely, it is a from that many people mistakenly believe to be a correct usage..." ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:17:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 In a message dated 5/3/00 6:50:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > please share your knowledge with the rest of > us....and refrain from belittling those of us who are ignorant. > Dear Reader; The USTU has had the same policy in this area for two about decades. Anyone who cared enough to know could find this information out in a heartbeat by calling the USTU office, or by checking its website United States Taekwondo Union . Sorry if this "belittles" anyone : ) SESilz ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:32:58 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Taekwondo vs. Taekwon-Do >> Umm, looks like the same name to me. Check the hangul, yep, same name. :) > >good attempt at a joke, Mr. Terry. But the distinction in the English translation is >indeed there. Taekwondo prounounced with the kwon syllable emphasized >vs. Taekwon with equal emphasis on the Tae and kwon and the Do syllable >emphasized. There is indeed a difference in spelling and the philosophy behind. >This is why the General insists that his art be called Taekwon-Do. We pronounce the names the same because they are the same. However, I do admit that I do not pronounce Taekwondo correctly, as I say "tie kwon do". Same name, same spelling in English or Hangul. Time to move on. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:40:43 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 >> However there are a great many ITF instructors that don't like or use the >> Sine Wave. Seems to mostly be those that have been in the ITF for a very long >> time. This appears to be at least one area in which there is some degree >> of freedom within the ITF. > > Really Mr. Terry??... bonafide ITF instructors. Bonafide meaning they have an > ITF plaque with number, and answer directly to an ITF Master or GrandMaster. Don't know. I never asked to see their plaque. Sounds like I should. (Mr. Steffen, may I see your plaque next week? :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:23:55 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #306 In a message dated 5/3/00 6:50:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > please remember, sir, that not everyone has the same great deal of experience > > and knowledge in regard to the USTU & WTF as do you. for them its the first > time. not the nth time. please share your knowledge with the rest of > us....and refrain from belittling those of us who are ignorant. > > melinda > > ChunjiDo - -pe > rsonal homepage > http://hometown.aol.com/chunjido/homehtmlindex.html > > www.Chajonshim.com Martial Arts Supply > now featuring a shopping cart for your convenience! :) > > Paidforsurf.c om > - - Main - get paid 75cents/hr to surf the net...i do! > Thanks, Melinda, I'll try to remember your advice. BTW, I find your repeated posts tagged with links to your business to be a bit offensive as this is not a commercial site, but a forum to share ideas upon. Why not stop all the advertising, and just write when you have something to share? As it is now, one must speculate if you are posting just to put your ads before the readers eyes. Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:43:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #303 UNIFORMS > > > From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com > Date: Tue May 02 13:33:47 2000 > Subject: the_dojang: new thread---Uniforms > > ...snip... > . I know the basic dobok has usually been plain white, but I am curious what kinds of uniforms members on this list wear, colors of them, student vs. BB or Instrucor unif., and perhaps a history of the development of the uniform, whether historically significant or just a dojang trait. The ATA has very strict uniform requirements. Ours are plain white, overlapping (not v-neck) with standard lettering of TAEKWONDO across the top of the back, ATA (with the jump sidekick logo) in the center of the back, and city, state across the bottom of the back. Black Belt instructors will have their name instead of city and state. There are guidelines for patches, trim and collars as well, mostly related to instructor status, judging level, etc. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #308 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.