From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 17 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 344 In this issue: the_dojang: Chuck Norris the_dojang: RE: more long-suffering to come... the_dojang: Meditation/relaxation the_dojang: A Schoolyard Brawl the_dojang: Re: Murky History the_dojang: Korea vs. Chosen Re: the_dojang: Re: Murky History [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 945 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Chuck Norris This from ITFer Robert Martin: > An interesting side note: Gen. Choi Hong Hi awared Chuck Norris > an 8th Dan in the ITF a couple of weeks ago. Is this true? Not that Master Norris doesn't deserve such rank, but this would seem to not support recent statements about the ITF and how they are organized, esp given that Master Norris does not even teach Taekwondo. Is this perhaps an honorary rank? To Ft. Fun Danny, I'm not being critical of the ITF. Just asking... :) Ray ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:10:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: more long-suffering to come... Hoo boy! I done it now! Seriously, folks, I joke with Mr Farral about his different approaches, but it's something I recommend, i.e. to train/study under teachers with different styles and backgrounds. I think if there were more 'cross-pollination' so to speak, we would have less trouble with people believing that their's is the one and only way. The best way to eliminate prejudice is to eliminate ignorance. So, Mr Farral, does this get me off the hook just a weeeeeee bit, Sir? Pleeeaaaaassseeeee??? > From: "Farral, Kim G" > Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:19:43 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Kerry's Trials > > Kerry... > > AAAAAAHHHHHHH...Weed-Hopper...Your trials have only JUST begun...You have > not YET begun to feel the pain of your LONG-Suffering!!! > > > Jr. Master Farral > > aka: > The One and Only... > > Tink ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:38:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Meditation/relaxation I tend to ride my bike for relaxation. Generally do more back roads, very wooded, peaceful, quiet, solitary. You get to feel the outdoors, smell the pines, feel the wind, let your mind drift. It is so relaxing, my daughter started falling asleep on the back when I've taken her for a ride. I realized it when her helmet kept banging into mine as her head kept nodding off. I had to stop and get her a drink with caffeine in it to wake her up. If I have the intercom on and my wife is with me, I can hear her constantly yawning and sighing in the mic. It's great for stress relief.... and everyone is so nice - other bikers wave at you when they go by (maybe it is to see if you are still awake...) Mac '95 Kawasaki Vulcan 750 'Computer geek by day, Karate master at night, biker on the weekends.' PS: Unlike Master Hilland, we get to ride year around down here in Houston! :-) ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:47:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: A Schoolyard Brawl My oldest daughter told me about a fight between two seniors at her high school. This is second hand but I guess it came from several sources. A Korean-American kid of average size got into a verbal altercation with a fairly big and well-known 'bad boy' at school that resulted in the bad boy challenging the Korean to a fight after class in a parking lot nearby. The Korean said 'sure, I'm a Taekwondo blackbelt, I'm gonna kick your ...' You get the point. Unfortunately for him, it didn't turn out that way. As the Korean drove into the parking lot, the bad boy ran right up to the car, opened the door and pulled the Korean kid out. He slammed him to the ground and proceeded to beat him while his car slowly rolled off. The Korean kid never had a chance. Apparently he was pretty messed up and missed a day or two of school, although he's back now. Lessons? Obviously, don't get into stupid fights, especially if you don't have to. But also, the bad boy was pretty smart. By surprising the kid and getting him down fast (and using his greater weight to keep him down), he never gave the Taekwondo stylist a chance to use his skills. What are we training for? And how do we train? Jesse ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:16:28 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Murky History Scott wrote: > I found the following information on a website. I was wondering if anyone > could varify that Daito-Ryo Aiki Jujitsu came from Shilla? Official Daito Ryu history says the art was first systemitized by a man named Shinra Saburo Minamoto no Yoshimitsu and that this man was the ancestor of the Takeda clan. Those who support the claim this art came from a Korean person point out that Saburo means 'Three Kingdoms,' the name of the historical period in Korea during which this man lived, and that Shinra means Shilla, the specific Korean kingdom from which this person supposedly came. Dr. KeeYoung Kimm points out that the Chinese characters used for his name in the official Daito Ryu scrolls are all used only for Korean names and never for Japanese names. I guess we'll never know conclusively what happened, but there is evidence to support the idea that Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu as an organized art originally came from Korean. I'd be very curious as to whether or not GM Choi YongSul was ever asked about this and what his answer was. Jesse ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 9:45:29 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Korea vs. Chosen Forwarding... Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Henny, One might also look at how the Japanese government itself rendered the name of Korea in their own English-language publications, on the supposition that they themselves, at least, would participate in their own conspiracy. >From my own study (long ago) of the English-language publications by the colonial government, mostly based on materials easily found in our library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, I see no support for the K-conspiracy. If we begin with the first colonial government, rendered in English (by themselves) as the "Residency-General of Korea:" 1908 Annual Report for 1907 on Reforms and Progress in Korea. Seoul: His Imperial Japanese Majesty's Residency-General. 1909 Second Annual Report on Reforms and Progress in Korea (1908-1909). Seoul: Residency-General of Korea. The next colonial government styled itself the "Government-General of Korea," and produced two publications lauding its successes in the penninsula: 1910 The Material Progress of Korea for the Last Five Years (1905-1910). Seoul: Government-General of Korea. 1910 Third Annual Report on Reforms and Progress in Korea. Seoul: Government-General of Korea. After annexation in 1910, when the Empire no longer considered Korea anything but a large and somewhat wayward prefecture, the colonial government entitled itself the Government-General of Chosen. It's Annual Reports, which were occasionally bienial, always called the area "Chosen," with the exception of the very first one published after annexation, in which they felt compelled to clarify what "Chosen" was: 1911 Annual Report on Reforms and Progress in Chosen (Korea) (1910-1911). Keijo (Seoul): Government-General of Chosen. Publications other than the Annual Reports also referred to "Chosen," such as: 1914 Results of Three Years' Administration of Chosen Since Annexation. Keijo: Government-General of Chosen. 1921 The New Administration in Chosen. Keijo: Government-General of Chosen. 1924 Development of Chosen and Necessity for Spiritual Enlightenment. Keijo: Government-General of Chosen, General Affairs Department. (Moriya Sakau authored this volume) 1935 Thriving Chosen: A Survey of Twenty-Five Years' Administration. N.p.: Taisho Shashin Kogeisho for the Government-General of Chosen, Foreign Affairs Division. This use of "Chosen" continued unabated from 1911 until 1937, when the Japanese government promulgated a new transliteration system (which, thankfully, did not survive the Occupation) to replace Hepburn system. I do not know the history of this other system, but it is interesting to note that, like those promulgated in nearby countries, this one insisted on duplicating the vagaries of Japanese kana spelling with Roman letters. In kana, you may remember, the "ch" sound is represented with a letterform in the "t" series: ta t[ch]i t[s]u te to. In instances in which other vowels follow the "ch" sound, the 'i' is replaced with "y+vowel," as in this series: tya tyi tyu tye tyo (but all pronounced "cha chi chu che cho"). The "j" sound, which can in theory be represented with either kana in the "t" series or kana in the "s" series (sa s[h]i su se so) was officially placed in the latter series, and represented in roman letters with a "z." Thus "Chosen" became "Tyosen," "Keijo" became "Keizyo," and the reports became as follows: 1937 Annual Report on the Administration of Tyosen (1936-1937). Keizyo: Government-General of Chosen. 1938 Annual Report on the Administration of Tyosen (1937-1938). Keizyo: Government-General of Chosen. 1938 seems to represent the endpoint of these Annual Reports, no doubt because, by 1939, the Empire no longer concerned itself with the opinions of English speakers. Incidently, these documents, and more importantly the photographs in them, make interesting reading, particularly when you read them against the backdrop of Japanese self-presentation (nihonjinron in particular), and in the company of similar documents concerning the puppet-state of Manchoukuo. So, in sum: the sequence in official Japanese colonial government English-language documents is "Korea" to "Chosen" to "Tyosen," or K to C to T, and not C to K at all. I might also point out that the truly nationalistic Japanese of the era preferred to render their country's name as "Nippon," which begins with N, so changing from C to K would, in any case, not have satisfied them. The ICAS folks may have a case for refusing to spell "Korea" with a "T," but I rather doubt any of them will make it. Richard - --Richard C. Miller - --UW School of Music - --Manado, Indonesia - --rcmiller@students.wisc.edu ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 9:55:48 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Murky History > I'd be very curious as to whether or not GM Choi YongSul was ever asked > about this and what his answer was. This brings up an interesting question as to where GM Choi Yong-sul learned his Yawara. He always claimed from Takeda Sensei, yet none of the Takeda family ever met or saw Gm Choi. Takeda kept highly thorough records of those he trained, yet none of the names GM Choi used appear in any of them. GM Choi claimed to have teaching licenses that were stolen, yet we can't find a single seminar that he attended. He claimed to have been a servant to the family, yet they were far too poor to have any servants. He claimed to have been called to the death bed of Takeda, yet I believe that Takeda died rather suddenly in a train station. Trust me, I'm not trying to raise a stink here, just looking for comments from those that might have info. Clearly he learned from someone. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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