From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #347 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 17 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 347 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 the_dojang: Ki finger Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 the_dojang: Re: Officer Needs Help the_dojang: Ki finger the_dojang: Chuck Norris the_dojang: Re: missing the Aiki ? Re: the_dojang: Re: missing the Aiki ? [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 945 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HKDTodd@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:26:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 In a message dated 5/17/00 12:43:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << This brings up an interesting question as to where GM Choi Yong-sul learned his Yawara. He always claimed from Takeda Sensei, yet none of the Takeda family ever met or saw Gm Choi. Takeda kept highly thorough records of those he trained, yet none of the names GM Choi used appear in any of them. GM Choi claimed to have teaching licenses that were stolen, yet we can't find a single seminar that he attended. He claimed to have been a servant to the family, yet they were far too poor to have any servants. He claimed to have been called to the death bed of Takeda, yet I believe that Takeda died rather suddenly in a train station. >> Choi, Yong Sool's name would not have appeared on seminar enrollments because he was Takeda's adopted son (according to Choi, Yong Sool). The Takeda family would clearly have issues with Choi, Yong Sool being THE only person to have learned the complete family art (keep in mind the cultural antipathy between Japan & Korea). We may never know the exact truth about Hapkido's founder and his training but when you look at the knowledge he possessed and passed on to a few you can see he had to have studied with a GREAT Martial Artist (Takeda Sokagu). Todd ------------------------------ From: HKDTodd@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:35:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Ki finger In a message dated 5/17/00 3:24:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'd like to start a new discussion about use of the index finger in Hapkido. The different instructors I've had didn't stress it, nor did Dojunim JI in the seminars I've been to with him, but obviously it is a big deal in some versions of Hapkido, even being used in the symbol for some HKD organizations. Also obviously it helps in concentrating the grip on the bottom three fingers and in pointing it lining up the direction you want the person to go. I'm wondering how widespread it is, if it's a subtlety that often gets lost, something perhaps Yong Sool CHOI did but JI didn't, if it comes up in Daito-Ryu Aikijujitsu or Aikido, basically it's history. I haven't had a chance to ask Dojunim JI about it specifically, perhaps Master Nabors can do so or someone such as Master West can share some info. >> My first HKD teacher put tremendous emphasis on pointing the first finger but when I started studying with GM Lim, Hyun Soo (One of 2 promoted to 9th dan by the founder) he said that the ki finger should be relaxed. Having trained in both schools of thought I now prefer the relaxed finger, it is still pointing somewhat but it is done naturally. Todd ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:04:13 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #344 > Choi, Yong Sool's name would not have appeared on seminar enrollments because > he was Takeda's adopted son (according to Choi, Yong Sool). His son appears in his records, no.?. I know that GM Choi claimed to have been adopted by the Takeda family, but given the cultures in question at that time that would not have happened. A servant boy, which he also claimed, perhaps, but not an adopted son. And as they have said, they had no servants and had never seen him. Is there a connection with Choi and Ueshiba? Ueshiba was a constant student of Takeda's. Hapkido seems a bit closer to his Aiki-Budo of the 1930s than to Takeda's Daito-Ryu. Yes? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:47:25 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Officer Needs Help There are several sources for use of expandable batons in defensive tactics. Kelly Worden has a two tape set available from Paladin Press http://www.e-sell.com/e-sellpaladin/Store/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3808. Price is $59.95 Good stuff here. Early materials from Leo Gaje presented by ISA show practical applications. Not sure of current availability, but other members probably know. There are various training centers such as the one run by Rod Sanford http://www.pidt.com/ that teach courses in baton tactics. Another center is Operator Skills Institute http://www.sasops.com/osi.html. You might also contact ASLET, American Society for Law Enforcement Training, and ask them for suggestions http://www.aslet.org Ray, can also supply the info to subscribe to the Police martial arts digest, and you can talk there with other LEOs about this and other concerns. Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:01:10 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Ki finger David asked: <> Here is what I have been taught. I'm sure there are lots of other explanations out there. In a simple version, the Ki finger, as displayed in the KHF logo, is but one technique, and is used to apply pressure to a nerve in the wrist joint. GM Ji does not place great emphasis on its use as a channel in which your Ki energy flows through your body in the direction of the technique. In that sense, its importance is limited. He also places great discipline in the use of the "kihap". The excessive yelling throughout an engagement in the performance of techniques has little effect, other than to confuse your opponent, and generally is viewed as a waste of air. Those that have trained with GM Ji know that the use a a kihap should be accompanied by with a slight touching of the grand molars, so as to cause a vibration, sending a signal to the middle brain, which signals a release of a small (and hopefully controlled) amount of adrenaline. As when someone growls when angered. However, Hapkido's development goes far beyond GM Ji or GM Choi. The use of one's Ki energy is expounded upon by others. Other Hapkido masters, and grandmasters, place far more importance on the flow of one's energy through the body and in the direction of the technique. Their lessons should be considered also, then you make up your own mind what is right. V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:29:50 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Chuck Norris Is Chun Kuk Do the correct name for Chuck's blend of Tang Soo Do, Judo, and Machado JJ? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: jsegovia@mindspring.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:54:51 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: missing the Aiki ? Yes, what I've seen looks very much like Aikido. The uniforms, the formality, beginning the techniques from a seated position, techniques against a downward 'sword' strike with the forearm, etc. But from what little I've seen of both Daito Ryu and Aikido, it seems Daito Ryu is much more forceful than Aikido in executing the techniques. The techniques were done very fast and with obvious pain, and the falls were hardand as I remember, they used many of the same finishing techniques as Hapkido. How would you define 'aiki?' By the way, what do you think of the Hapkido Master John Man So video tapes? You can answer off-list if you'd like. Jesse Ray wrote: > The Daito Ryu Aiki-JJ tapes I've seen were unlike Hapkido, much > more like Aikido. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:52:08 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: missing the Aiki ? > How would you define 'aiki?' Aiki = Hapki Their claim, not mine, is that Hapkido is more like Jujutsu than Aiki-Jujutsu. Aiki-JJ is Jujutsu using Aiki, blending of the life force. A softer, more Aikido-ish approach to the Jujutsu techniques. But I'm no expert... > By the way, what do you think of the Hapkido Master John Man So video > tapes? You can answer off-list if you'd like. They are fine. They seem to be Sin Moo. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #347 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.