From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #351 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 18 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 351 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Ethics in martial arts training the_dojang: re: Motivation the_dojang: Wheelchair bound MA's the_dojang: Meditation & Wheelchairs the_dojang: Chuck Norris the_dojang: Re: Ethics in martial arts training the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #349 wheelchair BBs the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #350 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 945 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:47:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ethics in martial arts training > unethical (cheating on their spouse). I wonder how the people on the list > feel about what kinds of possible consequences there should be for such > things. I do not see any reason why we cannot or should not hold people to > a higher standard when studying a martial art. (Believe me, my students I see the start of a long, heated thread on this, so I'm going to get my shots in early. :-) I think it's kind of dangerous to appoint yourself as a moral arbiter for things that go on outside of the school. Some things that might be considered immoral to you might not be considered immoral to other people. The situations you're mentioning don't seem to fall in that category, but I still imagine that people aren't going to take too well to being judged at that level for their actions. (A bunch of rhetorical questions to follow:) A guy I know in my school doesn't mind that his young daughter is living with her boyfriend (both of whom are at the school also). I don't agree with that choice. Which ones should I kick out? All of them? A girl in my school is a stripper, should I kick her out because I find that offensive? A guy in my school is a drug dealer, but has never tried selling at class, should I kick him out? A guy in my school is trying to sell drugs at class, should I kick him out? ... So, how do you know that these people have done these things anyway? Have you talked to them directly or is this gossip? How do you plan on keeping the school from becoming a clique where once you hear some dirt on someone, you have to kick them out because you kicked the last guy out? I hope I'm not offending you by all of this - I just really think you're asking for trouble if you carry this idea very far. In the end I think people need to hold themselves to a higher standard, rather than having one imposed on them from someone else. If they aren't holding themselves to it, it's not going to work. ------------------------------ From: Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:49:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: re: Motivation > 3 months now and i can really tell. my question to you is how can i get > my self motivated to get back into the classes or even just doing some > of the opening work out. > is there a method that some people use to get their selfs motivated or > does it just come natural to some people? > well thanks > Edwin Davis I would say to try to remember why you started the first time. Those reasons should be just as valid now as they were then. ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:26:18 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Wheelchair bound MA's It is just my personal opinion that the idea of a 1st degree black belt is to be able to demonstrate "basic motion", but also to be as good as they can possible be, but not necessarily as good as everyone else. The question then arises, what does "good as they can be" mean? Does it mean that we should expect kicking techniques from people with no legs, or wrist locks from people with no arms, and then do we stand at the door and make sure only the most fit come and enjoy the many benefits of training in a martial art. If your wife improves the quality of her life and learns to overcome the limitations of her physical body and thus propels herself to new levels of self-worth and feelings of accomplishment, I say (for what it's worth) that she definitely would be the definition of a blackbelt and should be encouraged to try for it. Wish her best of luck from me....J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: David Weller Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:56:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Meditation & Wheelchairs One of my instructors calls poomse in TKD "moving meditation". I personally find it difficult to sit still (or become internally still) long enough to reach what I feel would be a truly meditative state. When you have practiced the poomse techniques long enough it is easy to let them simply flow from within. I often find myself in the state Mr. Buehrer speaks of where the world around you, and the mind within you become like leaves blowing by in the wind, rustling, but affecting nothing they touch. As for physically challenged martial artists, I watched a young man at a belt promotion (he was testing for 5th gup I believe) who looked rather stiff when doing his kicks, wasn't paying real close attention to him until I realized (when I saw him throw a spinning cresent kick) that one of his legs was artificial (from the hip down). Now, I have to credit that young person (or anyone who overcomes physical limitations to accomplish a dream) with more intestinal fortitude than I can ever hope to muster. That sort of dedication is inspiring and quite awesome. Seeing this made it a little tough to complain about being sore,tired,old, etc etc..... Dave Weller, Student WTF TKD "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:45:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Chuck Norris <> Norris' organization re-created their own forms, UFAF #1, #2, #3. Unless there has been some major changes receintly, they don't do the "sine wave" thing. Mac ------------------------------ From: Scott Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:41:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ethics in martial arts training Agreed Shaun. I beleive in the tenets of the martial arts. I think that their should be consequences for actions. I personally wouldn't train anyone that I knew was using illegal drugs. I would follow the same tact for most other crimes. As for poor moral judgement, cheating ect. I would require that all students live up to the minimum code of ethics. If their personal choices are over stepping that I would require that they take actions to fix them. If not then they aren't the kind of person that I want to train. I Realize that most people will see this as sticking my nose in where I have no right to. (i.e. what they do outside the dojang is their own business) But I don't think it's okay to teach someone how to do great bodily harm and not have restrictions on how they behave. That's just like the guy who sold the kids at columbine the hand guns. Now if someone wanted to change then fine. Teach them phylosophy, meditation, breathing, Ect.. but nothing in the martial skills until they have learned enough self control to take responsability for their own actions. But that's just my position. Scott ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:17:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #349 wheelchair BBs > From: "Carl W" > Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:43:20 MDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #348 > > > > On a related, but slightly different note, does anybody have an idea of how > many "wheel chair" black belts there are? > ...snip The ATA has had a Special Needs division in its tournaments for at least 5 years now. We have at least 1, usually 2 rings of wheelchair competitors at World Championships each year. As far as the actual headcount, I'm not sure, but you could visit the ATA homepage at www.taekwondousa.com and e-mail them asking the question. I'm sure they would be able to tell you. ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:28:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #350 > > > From: "Shaun Fortune" > Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:13:47 CDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ethics in martial arts training > > I completely agree that there is more to rank than physical talent. If it's > a sport they want, so be it, but there has to be more than that in *our* > school. > > This brings up something I've been thinking about for a long time. I > completely agree with the ethical/emotional aspect of training in a martial > art. In the past, that have been students in our school who have engaged in > behaviors that were either outright illegal (drug possession) or just plain > unethical (cheating on their spouse). I wonder how the people on the list > feel about what kinds of possible consequences there should be for such > things. ...snip... I agree that those are the people that need the training the most, but at the same time, I am a firm believer in the concept of leading by example. I have had only one instance of drug abuse in my school; a junior who worked up to 2nd Degree Black Belt, then got messed up on drugs. I had to draw the line with him and tell him that he could do TKD or drugs, but not both. I worked with his parents, who were testing him at home, and he was told that he was on probation for one year. If he busted a drug test, he was out the door. Sadly, he chose to do drugs and the situation at home has gotten so bad that his mother has told him when he comes home from rehab this last time, the same thing applies - if he busts a drug test, he's out the door. Sad, sad, sad.... - ------------------------------ > > From: "Kevin W. Tibbs" > Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Wheelchair bound MAs > > Hello All, > > I vascillate on the subject of awarding black belts to those MAs who have > limited physical capabilities. On the one hand, I think that martial arts are > very personal and that each one of us can benefit greatly by improving ourselves > through discipline and dedication; however, I do think that some minimum > standards have to be applied irrespective of the inherent capabilities of the > person testing. There should be some objective standards. ...snip There are. Everyone should be able to perform the techniques *to the best of their ability*. In your wife's case, whatever techniques she can do should be done with as much power, focus, timing, etc. as she is capable of. That should be part of the judging criteria, in addition to spirit, attitude, etc. IMHO, of course. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #351 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.