From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #362 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 28 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 362 In this issue: the_dojang: Stances the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 the_dojang: Re: Looking for a Gong the_dojang: Re: 1st Purple Belt Stripe the_dojang: Re: Whistling and Cheering the_dojang: Re: Healed Knee the_dojang: Re: Happy Birthday, Kim ! the_dojang: Re: Ethics and Martial Arts the_dojang: Re: Congratulations ... New Black Belts ! the_dojang: RE: Torn ACLs the_dojang: Mixing of TKD and Karate the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 the_dojang: SPORT vs ART the_dojang: Re: Training Question the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 the_dojang: re: patriot or assassin? [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 955 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Reed Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:43:55 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Stances This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------B62839AB81649AE999A0FF68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to disagree to some extent with the posts so far. If you look at a wide variety of martial arts you will find that almost all have some sort of front stance which implies it is not an artifact but a core method. One major stated use in Chinese martial arts, particularly southern schools, is to use them for training purposes as they perform them deeply while making very dynamic motions including kicking. Japanese karateka talk alot about the use of the various stances as methods for achieving just the correct distance given a certain tactical situation. If you have ever see world class Japanese sparring competition, they often use the classical stances because they give them a solid understanding of the possibilities of their motions versus their opponent's. Front stance is a great stance to kick from as it allows you to benefit from the stretch reflex in your hip flexors. Used for finishing or push kicks, I would submit it is also more powerful because it requires more hip twist and acceleration of your bodyweight, making the snap on penetration more effective. I've broken five 12" by 12" boards with a ball of the foot roundhouse from this position. I would also note that I didn't go through the boards but popped them as a unit and recoiled as if kicking air. This is not a claim to be a great kicker but I learned this from Kim, Jae Joon based on Talyunbong training and it really has proven out. Aikido and other joint arts I've studied also use the front stance for applying leverage or unbalancing. The commitment of the rear hip into a target is so strong when applied perpendicular to the line between the opponent's feet.. You'll also notice that when demonstrating techniques, attackers often are allowed via timing to over extend a front stance. If you look at the forms and when front stance is used and consider distance, timing, and leverage for a strike or joint technique, I thing you can see the benefit while sparring. As an example, try controlling the distance with an opponent by separating and then coming back so they yo-yo with you. Then, consciously take that big front stance as they begin to return and throw a spinning back kick. 30 years ago as a red belt my instructor constantly hit me with techniques that normally take a lot of time and don't hit without being in a combination. Finally, I realized that he had mastered using the stances as a distance tool, among other things, and controlled my reaction time that way. One last thought is that next time you do a simple down block followed by a step into front stance and punch, try it with a partner grabbing their uniform with the blocking hand as you punch. Try it against a kick, wrist or elbow grab, and hook punch to the kidney. The variety of distances and how you can penetrate, off-balance, and crush them with an appropriately targeted punch is interesting. Sorry for the diatribe. Every now and then I get on my box. Apparently a symptom of age. David - --------------B62839AB81649AE999A0FF68 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="dreed.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for David Reed Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dreed.vcf" begin:vcard n:Reed;David tel;work:(206)770-2813 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.visioncompass.com org:Consulting Services;Vision Compass version:2.1 email;internet:david_reed@visioncompass.com title:Vice President adr;quoted-printable:;;2101 4th Avenue=0D=0ASuite 2000;Seattle;WA;98121;USA fn:David Reed end:vcard - --------------B62839AB81649AE999A0FF68-- ------------------------------ From: LJSFLEM@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:25:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 In a message dated 5/27/00 5:42:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << >are more the "victim" than the woman who is on stage. >> What about the guys up on stage dancin' for the women? It takes all kinds to make the world. L. Fleming Garfield, NJ TKD ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:51:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Looking for a Gong In a message dated 5/25/00 4:40:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << If I were looking for a gong on the Internet, I'd try various new age, music, and Tibetan sites and skip the martial arts sites. >> Go to Ebay.com and key in the word "gong" ... I have seen many for sale there. That is where I bought mine. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:00:07 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: 1st Purple Belt Stripe In a message dated 5/27/00 10:42:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Last night, I received my first Purple Belt Stripe! >> Congratulations on a job well done ! What did you do on your test, may I ask? Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:30:23 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Whistling and Cheering In a message dated 5/24/00 3:49:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << but if the kid behind me with the whistle hadn't moved - it would have "accidentally" been stepped on or some other dire accident. >> The ones I hate at cheering places is the ones with the ear-splitting whistles they have to give ... right by my ear or right behind me ! I can't hear for many minutes afterwards ! Argh ! Clap and cheer ... but please don't whistle near my ears ! Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:31:55 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Healed Knee In a message dated 5/24/00 3:49:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I just wanted to drop a quick note to everyone that encouraged me during my pre and post knee traumas. I passed my Dan test on Sat and participated in a parade on Monday that involved me running, jumping and kicking on pavement and all is well. >> Wow ! Congratulations !! Sounds like it healed over really well ! But still take care ? Did you soak it afterwards or what do you do now when it gets sore, Sandy? Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:34:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Happy Birthday, Kim ! In a message dated 5/24/00 3:49:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Monday was my 18th birthday...I'm finally LEGAL!!!! I don't feel any different, but I -*FINALLY*- succeeded in getting my curfew raised to the 2200-2300 time frame...in addition to that, this now means that with my cho-dan, given the fact that I do compete at a state tournament in the spring, >> Hey ! Sorry I am so late but having been online much of this week and am trying to catch up. But A Belated Happy Birthday and love the lil' dance at the end !! LOL ! Let us know how you find the Sr. Nationals as opposed to the Jr. Nationals, K ? Love to hear what you feel the difference is. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:38:01 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ethics and Martial Arts In a message dated 5/24/00 3:49:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << For us, the teaching of fighting skills without instruction in ethical and moral behavior does not produce warriors, but barbarians. If a student does not agree, then they can train elsewhere. >> Same in our school. It goes hand in hand. And have just had one of my Brown Belts come back from a 2 year absence because he didn't agree and he went and trained at other schools ... He has come back a different person ... he knows now it is not all about the physical ... but it is very mental also ... Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:41:15 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Congratulations ... New Black Belts ! In a message dated 5/24/00 3:49:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << It's my pleasure to inform everyone that Mr. Ernie Finestone and Mr. Jonathan Stering of the American Martial Way Association passed their Black Belt testing last weekend. >> Give them our Congratulations from our school here ... I bet they feel so proud of their outstanding accomplishments ! Everyone's BB test is different ... and I respect that. It must have been accomplished at a camp ? Generally the long ones are and they are really special times when done so. Respectfully, Illona ------------------------------ From: Tony Preston Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:41:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Torn ACLs |From: Joan Bostic |Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:43:40 -0500 |Subject: the_dojang: Torn ACL |Well, ouch! I landed a lateral jump poorly and completely tore my ACL two |days before my 4th Gup test. (Very depressing.) I'm looking for some |member experiences with torn ACL's and reconstructive surgery. How long did |it take before you were able to train? How long before you regained a |competitive form. Are you comfortable with the reconstructed knee? Did you |have any collateral damage beside the ACL? |Any experiences or information you can provide are greatly appreciated. Joan I tore my ACL in my left leg about 3 1/2 yrs ago. I had surgery about a month afterwards where they use the patella tendon as a replacement( they take a strip off the middle with a bit of bone on each end). That is the tendon that attaches your knee cap to the shin bone. It was 5 months before I could train again (actually the doctor told me to wait for 6 or 7 months, but I took it easy and went earlier). It took me about 10-11 months til the leg felt "good" again... After about a year, it actually felt better than it did before(I think the Physical theraphy during the year made it more flexible and stronger than before the injury). The first month is the worst, your sore, not able to do much and you think it never will get better... After than you improve quickly. One thing... I was 47 yrs old when this happened... If your younger, you will recover faster... Everyone's milage varies... I know the PT people thought I was amazing.... I was way ahead of what they expected for an "old man"... I attribute that to the TKD... My leg was in good shape prior to the injury and that helped the recovery. A friend of mine tore her ACL doing a jumping spinning Roundhouse and had a similar recovery period. Also, I just "did it again" to my right knee... I plan to have the surgery again and expect to go back to TKD in about 5 or 6 months... It is worth the time.. One thing you might do is work on things that do not twist the knee for now. Some of my forms I can do, some I cannot... I worked on my weapons forms while I was home and unable to really train... I plan to still train, even at 50 yrs old... The bottom line is it will cost you about 5-8 months, you will be substandard for that time, after that you will be a bit afraid to use the leg even thought it is probably stronger than it was before. Then sometime from 9-12 months you will be suddenly back to normal... You will not realize that your not favoring the "bum leg". I decided to use my own tendon for the replacement, but from what I understand some women do not have a thick enough one to have that as a choice. If so, the other choices are a part of your hamstring tendon or a cadaever tendon... I did not think either of the other choices were going to produce as strong a replacement, but the doctors say they would... One suggestion.... Choose a doctor that does sports medicine... One that specializes in this area. Ask your family doctor who he would recommend. My wife works in the local hospital and know alot about the doctors... The skill levels vary... |------------------------------ |From: Tim Bruening |Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:57:21 -0700 |Subject: the_dojang: 1st Purple Belt Stripe! |Last night, I received my first Purple Belt Stripe! |------------------------------ |From: Ray Terry |Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:38:18 -0700 (PDT) |Subject: the_dojang: US - Memorial Day |Wishing those in the US a thoughtful Memorial Day. |Ray |------------------------------ |End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 |******************************** | It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. |US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 |719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com |To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: | unsubscribe the_dojang-digest | -or- | unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address |in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to |majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. |Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. |Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource |Standard disclaimers apply. - -- - -- Tony Preston *Team Amiga* Linux Developer since 1993 - -- SR Principal Engineer/Scientist - -- Atlantic Science & Technology Inc. - -- The Amiga Zone BBS 609-654-7659, Citadel 68K ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:15:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Mixing of TKD and Karate <> Sounds more like Moo Duk Kwan style Tae Kwon Do. << Not to mention I like to blend the two arts together.>> About all the instructors I know (including me) tend to have a varied MA background, and will use aspects from their entire background. So blending various arts you've learned is a common practice, although most instructors will have a primary or base art to work from. <> Hummmm.... Karate schools would teach forms like Pinan, Heian, Tekki, Bassai, etc. WTF forms begin with the Palgue or Taegeuks, and the ITF Chang Hon series begin with Chunji, Dosan, etc. So maybe these local Karate schools are also teaching a mixture of arts. I know of a Japanese based art that also teaches versions of Korean patterns, like HwaRang, even though they are based off Shoto-Kan Karate-Do (which I studied some of). <<....I also feel I want to call it TKD but is that appropriate?>> Sure. The series of Japanese/Okanawan Katas that all the TaeKwonDo kwans did prior to coming up with the new forms (Palgue & Taegeuk, and Yudanja forms) were based off the Pinan/Heian forms and in Korean were called Pyung-an or "Pyongs" as you referred to them as. The old name for "Karate" in Korean was Tang-soo-do or Kong-soo-do, which was what Korean MA were called in Korean prior to coming up with the name Tae-kwon-do in the late '50s early '60s. The Moo Duk Kwan never dropped doing the Pyung-ahn series of forms, and the dojangs that stayed with Hwang Kee continued to call their art "Tang-Soo-Do" (later Soo-Bahk-Do) and the Moo Duk Kwan instructors that broke with Hwang Kee began calling their art "Tae-Kwon-Do" with the rest of the other Kwans. Most of those MDK TKD schools began to teach the new forms of Paluge or Taegeuks, but many of them kept doing the Pyung-ahns also. My first TKD school did both the Pyung-ahn and Palgue sets. I later learned most of the ITF gup patterns and have learned some of the WTF Yudanja forms as well. Some MDK TSD schools I know of also did the WTF poomse, to keep current with the general TKD movement. I know some of them that will pick up with the WTF Yudanja forms (those above the Taegeuks or Palgues). I've also known a couple of TSD schools that will teach a mix, the Pyung-ahn being the base, throw in a couple of ITF TKD forms like HwaRang, and WTF forms like Koryo, a SooBahkDo Chil-song form, etc. Some of the Bong (staff) forms I learned were from Shorin-Ryu Karate. I've also played a bit with Ju-Jitsu and Hapkido that I blend in for some of the self defense aspects. You're safe calling it TaeKwonDo. I prefer TangSooDo, to me it denotes the older, more classical training (and using Pyung-ahn Hyungs) and not the modern sport competition aspects of TKD. IMO, TSD is a blend of TKD and Karate. Good luck. Mac ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 02:23:31 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 In a message dated 5/27/00 11:43:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << from one style or the other? Thanks Cory >> Dear Sir, You didn't indicate the level of black belt(s) you have earned, and that makes a big differnence in how you approach teaching. If your rank is below that of master instructor, what you teach and what you call your style should be determined by your master. If you are a master yourself, then you have developed the foundation upon which you may take greater creative liberties with your curriculum - and what you call it. A 1st to 3rd dan black belt, on the other hand, quite likiely lacks the depth of understanding, experience and seniority needed to effectively develop their own style or synthesis. Certainly there is nothing wrong with creativity and hybridization, but one should much more in the way of foundation to bulid upon than a "beginner black belt" has established. Of course, many people will disagree with my analysis and comments, but following my advice will help prevent, as you call it, "catching slak from one side or the other." It will also prevent you from making premature changes in your foundational arts. Perhaps, though, my analysis IS supported as you refer to "Chonji and Dosan" as "wtf forms." Contrary to what you have written about the schools in your area, these are neither Karate, nor WTF forms. I'd be worried that these schools may be run by individuals who began teaching too early in their own training and/or without their master's supervision. Food for thought, at very least, no? Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:57:20 EDT Subject: the_dojang: SPORT vs ART The Fate of Olympic Taekwondo: "THE SPORT WILL KILL OUR ART!" So many times I have heard this - in my opinion - misguided commentary, that refuting it has become a source of tedium. However, to those who may still cling to this belief, I'd like to share with you a situation that I watched unfold during the U.S. Olympic Taekwondo Team Trials last week at the U.S. Olympic Complex in Colorado Springs. Though this event has already received wide international publicity, I will give a brief summary in case someone may have missed out on it. Briefly put, one contender for a spot on the US Olympic Team bowed-out to her adversary in their final match, thereby giving her slot to her opponent. Rest assured that even amongst the greatest sportsmen and women on the planet, this is not a common sight. In fact I can find absolutely no evidence of this ever happening before in the entire 104-year history of the modern Olympic Games Esther Kim, the player who forfeited the match, and along with it forfeited her Olympic Dream, was almost guaranteed a victory over Kay POE due to the extent Ms. Poe's injury. Ms. Poe, in a demonstration of genuine indomitiable martial art spirit, was quite willing to fight even though she appeared unable to even walk without assistance. Ms. Kim, also living by the ancient warrior code of taekwondo, came to the hard conclusion that there would be no honor in taking unfair advantage of an injured opponent. Ms. Kim said that she believed that Ms. Poe had trained harder and performed better internationally. This, Esther said, made Kay more deserving the spot on the team than she. Esther Kim and Kay Poe, both instructed and coached by Esther's dad, Master Jin Won Kim of Texas, had defeated the other three women in their division in the day-long, round-robin competition, leaving only themselves in contention for the Gold, and with it the fin-weight slot on the 2000 US Olympic Team. Ms. Poe, the number-one ranked fighter in the world in this weight, was expected to edge-out Ms. Kim, who is ranked 10th. Ms. Poe's injury was severe enough, however, that it more than canceled any possible advantage. This is when Esther Kim decided to sacrifice her perhaps once-in-a-lifetime-chance to be an Olympian. This fairytale-like story demonstrates that taekwondo's philosopy and code of ethics are not only alive... they are being lived-by even at this most extreme level of SPORTS competition. In fact, the beauty of Esther Kim's huge personal sacrifice to her friend and opponent Kay Poe, has even caught the eye of the President of the International Olympic Committee, Mr. Juan Antonio Samaranch who telephoned the Kim household yesterday to extend his deep appreciation for her grand gesture. The IOC President was so moved by the attitude and actions of this US Taekwondo Champion he has made arrangements for her to travel to Sydney along with Ms. Poe to be with her so that they may experience The Games together. In an even greater tribute, Esther Kim's deed received its own page of recognition in the United States Congressional Record, This young champion's grace and honor have already transcended the arena of Victory and Defeat; she has provided a model exemplifying the beauty and merits of sacrifice for all the world to behold. Not bad for a sport, huh? Sincerely ------------------------------ From: "Miguel" Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Training Question Blank> > How often and what type of training do you all do outside of class > times. And How do you fit in in with a busy family life and full time > job? > Things that are easily incorporated. - - 10 minute stretch. This can be done before the household gets up, just before you go to bed or right before or after a shower. - - Forms practice. This can be just a quick run through the moves, it does not have to be full power, full speed or requiring a large area. Repetition is the key; if you have to THINK about the next move, you cant think about how to perfect it. - - Calisthenics, pushups and sit-ups can develop your strength and you don't have to do them for an hour at a time. - Slow, perfect kicks (hang on to your kitchen counter and execute a slow motion side kick from chamber to extension and hold it out, re chamber and return in slow motion again). You can do this while carrying on a conversation. Others will think you're nuts but they'll get used to if after a while. Be creative and you can put martial arts in your daily life. Miguel Garcia Garcia's Tae Kwon Do www.garciatkd.com ICQ# 72506592 ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hor=E1cio_Lopes?= Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:03:29 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #361 From: horacio.lopes@netc.pt Date: Sun, 28 May, 2000 14.47.00 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Mixing of TKD and Karate Hi Cory, I'm Horácio. I wonder what would you feel if you were a Yellow Belt and your Instructor started teaching you 2 diferent styles of Martial Arts ? Wouldn't you be a little mixed up. I think it's much better start trainig in a Martial Art with a strongh foundation on something. Latter, if you want to practice something else, why not ? As long as you can notice the diference between water and wine, it's OK. "If you show two diferent options to who doesn't now the way, you may lose your credit, or you may make that person get lost." ( sorry for my english ) Horácio Lopes horacio.lopes@netc.pt ------------------------------ From: eirikr1@juno.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:58:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: re: patriot or assassin? In response to: >>>From: Tim Bruening Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:34:50 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Assassins And Purple Belt Form I am beginning to learn Joong-Gun, the Purple Belt Form in ITC Taekwondo. Joong-Gun is named after the patriot An Joog-Gun, who assassinated Hiro-Bumi Ito, the first Japanese Governor of Korea, known as the man who played the leading part of the Korea-Japan merger. Mr An was executed at Lui-Shung prison in 1910.<<< I was taught the patriot jun-gun was 32 years old at the time of his execution, thus the 32 steps in the form. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #362 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.