From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #387 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 9 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 387 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #385 the_dojang: Grandmaster Lee the_dojang: Origins of Taekwondo the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #386 Re: the_dojang: Origins of Taekwondo the_dojang: Hai Dong Gumdo stances the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo and sport the_dojang: Daniel-block conditioning [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 900 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:36:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #385 Thanks Kakarot550 for your help on baisai ! I appreciate it. This is the one.. ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:23:12 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Grandmaster Lee In regard to Grandmaster Lee sparring with Bruce Lee, Sifu, I think the person to ask about this would be none other than Grandmaster Joon Rhee. He and Bruce Lee were close friends and spent alot of time exchanging idea's. Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee, has numerous letters from Sifu Lee, and could probably shade some light on this issue. In addition I would note that Grandmaster Lee, did more to promote Tae Kwon Do in the U.S. than anyone else and he has an active following of at lease 150,000 the last I heard. I'm sure that who ever takes over the ATA will recieve the respect of all members and they will continue to grow. The ATA has some of the most organized training and testing standard that I have seen in the past 25 or so years. Grandmaster Lee, has made a mark in the Korean martial Arts community that will not fade anytime soon. Who knows he may fool everyone and beat this too stranger things have happened. My prayers and good thoughts will be with him and I hope that the rest of you would take the time to say a prayer for him as well. Thank you. Kwan Jang Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:44:16 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Origins of Taekwondo In a message dated 6/8/00 5:12:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Partially right. Kwonbop (Chinese boxing, lit. "fist way") was around > for a long time in Korea thanks to the influence of China. It is > known in Mandarin as quanfa, in Okinawa as kempo, and in the > Philippines as kuntao. As for the rest, well, you've got a lot of > reading to do, and I imagine the rest of the list members are tired > of hearing about all of this for the last decade! People, I don't wish to begin a drawn out debate on the True Origins of the Martial Arts, as I'm sure no one individual - not Glenn U., or even myself : ) - knows even 1% of the evoluiton(s) of such a broad category of phenomena. Undoubtedly there are many parallel, divergent and convergent paths going back to prehistoric times. Nevertheless, may scholars credit Bodhidarma, and his tenure at the famed ShaoLin Temple, to be the epicenter from which gungfu spread, then igniting the various Chinese, Korean, Okinawan and eventually the Japanese systems of unarmed combat. There is a hell of a problem with this theory, however: Bodhidarma's lived about 1000 years AFTER the period during which many tomb murals depicting martial art activities were known to have been painted in what is now South Korea. This certainly stands as significant evidence against the 'gungfu as the mother of all martial arts' theory, in fact, it shoots a big hole right through its center. It is commonly claimed that GungFu, TangSoo, and Karate, are the progenitors of taekwondo. [Tang Soo, meaning, by the way: "Hand of the Tang Dynasty," which was also known as the "Kara Kingdom;" from which we get Kara KARA-TE, which also means or "Chinese Hand," ...which was much later "retranslated" by the Japanese to mean "Empty Hand" - showing that karate indeed has a Chinese origin]) Based on hard archeological evidence, however, it now appears that the combative systems that were practiced before the birth of Christ on the Korean peninsula significantly predate the artifacts of unarmed combat of Chinese GungFu ...and its probable spin-offs like kempoh, tangsoo, goju, karate, chuanfa, soobahk, etc. etc. etc. It may well be "revisionist history" to claim that there was no influence from shoto-kan on taekwondo during the last Japanese occupation of Korea. It is probably just as revisionist, however, to say that the root of taekwondo is not originally Korean. You just have to look back far enough. In fact, there is more evidence indicating that these Korean systems are the actual 'mother arts' to the many styles I mentioned previously. As I said, no one, least of all me, knows which is the chicken and which, the egg. I do know (sorry Ray) however, those who say that taekwondo sprang from karate, soobakdo, kungfu, tangsoodo, etc. are simply starting their histories about 2000 years too late!!! Finally, regardless of when and where taekwondo really began, the important thing to us should be where it is today, and what it offers to its adherents in our civilization. In my admittedly jaded viewpoint, WTF Taekwondo, offers its practitioners the best of traditional moo-do spirit and values, combined with streamlined, bio-mechanically efficient technical motions that are not mired by narrow interpretation of how they should be done, but rather the product of a worldwide synthesis offered by its unique Olympic status. And that's cool. SESilz ------------------------------ From: "Joel S. Weissler" Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 20:12:35 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #386 > I am trying to choose which Hapkido organization above and beyond my local school (which is unaffiliated) to formally affiliate with. I would greatly appreciate some help in distinguishing between them. What diffences in approach and style have members noted ? Which styles include hyung (forms) ? Which organizations put emphasis on what aspects of the art ? (kicking, joint locks, weapons ?) Which organizations are largest - in the US v. in other countries ? All input and viewpoints good and bad about the different Hapkido systems would be appreciated. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.-- JSW ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 20:49:58 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Origins of Taekwondo > Bodhidarma's lived about 1000 years AFTER the period during which many > tomb murals depicting martial art activities were known to have been painted > in what is now South Korea. But what are those murals, really? Of fighting? Dancing? Something else? No one will ever likely know for sure. Anyway, Bodhidarma came from India so anything he -might- have taught in the way of martial arts would have probably come from the sub-continent of India, yes? We're getting pretty far from Korea and closer to where the martial arts probably did begin, in the cradle of civilization (Africa or the Near East). > As I said, no one, least of all me, knows which is the chicken and which, > the egg. I do know (sorry Ray) however, those who say that taekwondo sprang > from karate, soobakdo, kungfu, tangsoodo, etc. are simply starting their > histories about 2000 years too late!!! One starts any history as early as possible. Prior to history we have pre-history, i.e. things we might suspect but can probably never prove. Trying to get the genesis of TKD or martial arts back to Korea is, at this point, IMHO an exercise in pre-history. But what the heck, I'm not a professional or even a trained historian. What do I know... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:28:52 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Hai Dong Gumdo stances Sorry if I wasn't clear Ray. I'll try and sort this out... During the kibun donjak for our curriculum there are transitions from one stance to the next which we learn to do as a part of that stance. We follow the same order for practicing the basic techniques in ever class, only ht enumbers of repetitions changes. Koom-gae dok lip sae (rooster) follows tae-do sae in the scheme of things so it works like this... After doing the repititions of front and back single and double cuts in "the front stance" (tae-do sae) the student is left standing in front stance with their sword tip (gum-ko) on the same plane as their knees. The stance name is called as a command: "Koom-gae dok lip pal sang sae" Upon hearing this the students turn the sword so that the unsharpened edge (gum-toong) is facing left. Then the sword is swept in a low arc from the front to the left side and your weight shifts to the back leg. Gum-ko is then brought up to the vertical position and the whole upper body is swept to the right, weight shifts to the right leg and the arms and sword cocked into the stance's defensive/ready posture. The left knee then rises up leaving you standing on the right leg. To reverse the stance put the foot down, step back with the right foot and turn your facing to create tae-do sae again, cut from left to right (kihap) and then draw back into the one legged posture only this time stand on the left leg. This entire procedure is koom-gae dok lip pal sang sae. The stance alone (standing on one leg) is koom-gae dok lip sae. Is this the set of motions you are referring to? If not could you describe them a bit? Anthony Boyd http://victorian.fortunecity.com/operatic/739 ------------------------------ From: HwarangTSD@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:53:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo and sport Taekwondo is a sport. It is the National sport of Korea, much like baseball is to the US. Kukki-Taekowndo is an officially recognized sport by the Interneational Olympic Committee. This is not to say that Taekwondo is only a sport. Taekwondo has been used in self defense situations many times over. Technically speaking, if you really think about it, all martial arts may be considered sport... after all they pit one practitioner against another in a myriad of ways, and one will always dominate the other ( meaning that the defender utilises a technique to defend and place the attacker in a compromising situation). Unlike sport, Taekowndo can aid a person in daily life. It can teach many things and give you many "gifts". Sport really can not do this. While as a traditionalist, I don't care for sport, but I do think that it has value in that it gives the practitioner the opportunity to train against Taekwondoin from other styles and methods of training. So in the end, Taekwondo is both a sport and a martial art. Frank Clay ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 02:08:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Daniel-block conditioning When I studied Gohakukai Karate many many many years ago, we were taught a couple drills which I have passed on to my TKD students and other instructors. They are kind of a lead in to 'push hands' and 'sticky hands'. Here goes: Stand right toe to right toe with a partner. Both of you do a right hand middle block, clashing them at mid arm, then do a right hand low block. This can be done softly then increased. Be sure to do both left and right sides. Here is another: Stand right toe to right toe with a partner. Both do an open hand middle block (palm facing you). Make and keep contact during entire excercise. You will push your arm against the partners arm. Push sideways (right), then turn your palm toward their chest and push toward their chest. The partner will resist and not let you touch their chest. They will move your hand out of the way (block), turn their palm toward your chest and push. Again, keep forearm contact throughout the entire excercise. And the excercise will go back and forth until you get tired. :-) Start slow and light and increase from there. Anyone else have similar drills??? Hope this helped, Mark Gajdostik Oregon Fighting Arts ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 05:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #387 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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