From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 13 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 397 In this issue: the_dojang: Printing the_dojang: The Supremes? the_dojang: Punching Power the_dojang: Cha-oo baegi vs. 2 chung-myun baegis the_dojang: Korea Society summer interns the_dojang: Ranks the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #395 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 930 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:27:18 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Printing In a message dated 6/9/00 11:36:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > The grand master is an educated man. > There was a book there on the history of China and the discussion went to > the > origins in China of things like gunpowder and printing. I don't know where gunpowder was first compounded, but I do believe that the earliest movable-type printing presses were produced in Korea - well before Guttenberg's device. SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:52:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The Supremes? Jeez, folks, where is this going to end? Here's my tongue in cheek proposal: Super Intergalactic Supreme Grand Imperial Master? SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:06:06 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Punching Power In a message dated 6/12/00 11:44:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > The popularity of the twisting punch probably comes more > from its inclination to tear open the skin when wearing a boxing glove > that it does from its contribution of additional power to a punch. > I agree with this assessment 100%. For the record, I teach most punching skills with the fist in a vertical conformation, which is also how I was taught by Master Sang Lee. In addition to the noted problems associated with the twisting-wrist punch, I'd like to add that it also encourages the practitioner to abduct the upper arm (winging the elbow to the side) while punching, thus opening the flanks to attack for a longer time than when punching with the fist vertically oriented and thus the elbow pointing towards the ground. SESilz ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Cha-oo baegi vs. 2 chung-myun baegis In Haidong Gumdo, how exactly does a cha-oo baegi (left/right cut) differ from two chung-myun baegis (center cuts)? It seemed that one didn't move the sword much to the left or right, perhaps an inch, on the cha-oo baegi. Yes? Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Korea Society summer interns Forwarding... Ray - --------------------------------------------------------------- The Korea Society is seeking 2 to 3 summer interns. Description: Looking for interns who can start right away. The Korea Society offers many programs for the American public and needs a bright person who can multi-task. Excellent opportunity to get insight into the world of non-profit, foreign relations and arts programming. Responsibilities: Interns are expected to asist with all aspects of programming. Some data-entry, use of all office equipment, coordinating with outsiders, some light writing, etc. Training provided as necessary. Requirements: Should be at least a college student currently and interested in South Korea or promoting U.S.-Korea relations. Should have good interpersonal skills and ability to learn quickly. Someone with Microsoft Office 97 and/or 98 skills is preferred. Compensation: Reimbusement for roundtrip travel from home to our offices and lunch. If interested, please call Ms. Suzanne Lim at 212.759.7525 x28 or suzanne.ny@koreasociety.org. Suzanne C. Lim 212.759.7525 x28 suzanne.ny@koreasociety.org www.koreasociety.org ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Ranks > Didn't one of the kwan founders hold a fourth dan in Shudokan? I believe > this was the founder of Chang Moo Kwan (In Byung Yun). Not that I can find. Given that he was listed as MIA in the Korea War, we don't seem to know a whole lot about him. What do you know? Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #395 > "Objections to the vertical punch come in at least two forms. The > first maintains that the twisting of a punch makes it more > powerful. However, while torque in an axis perpendicular to the > line of movement may provide some additional force output in the > direction of movement, its contribution would be minimal. Russian > researchers using electromyography (EMG) studies have found that > both the arm and shoulder only contribute 24% of the muscular force > developed by a punch (Verkhonshamsky, Filimonov, Husyainov, & > Garakyan, 1991). Realizing that the muscles of the shoulder and > arm create most of that 24%, how much could the pronators possibly > contribute? The popularity of the twisting punch probably comes > more from its inclination to tear open the skin when wearing a > boxing glove that it does from its contribution of additional power > to a punch. I don't have time to get into the details right now, but the logic of the above statement is suspect, and the physics is almost certainly wrong. Pronation of the hand lets the triceps move through a greater range of motion; it's a biomechanically superior motion, in that more work (work = force * distance) gets done. Plus the muscles of the forearm come in to play. But it's almost certainly true that _when_ work is done is as or more important than _how much_ work is done. The high coordination most people have in their hands and wrists (i.e. the forearm muscles) probably means that while the power added is small, the _timing_ at which the power is added is extremely precise. There's another potential problem I'd like to point out. At the beginning there was a note that "Dempsey was used as one of the references in the study." I assume Dempsey the boxer, right? Boxing punches and the "traditional martial-arts straight punch" are entirely different things. They do damage to the target in different ways via different processes. Energy is transferred differently. Momentum is transferred differently. The "effective mass" of the strike is different. Any scientific description of one in terms of the other is doomed from the start. > "The second objection argues that if the vertical punch is a superior > method of punching, why isn't everyone punching that way? Because the above question assumes that traditional and vertical punches have the same goals - that is, that practitioners of each style agree on what a "superior" punch is. They almost certainly don't. (Those with a Zen/Buddhist background will recognise this as a "bad question" - the only answer is to unask it.) It may be that in some respects vertical punches are superior. In other respects, traditional punches are better. The question is, "What do you mean by a superior punch?" Until that question has been answered, any attempts to discuss the above question will only lead to flame wars. ;-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.