From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #398 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 13 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 398 In this issue: the_dojang: Physics of Martial Arts the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 the_dojang: cha-oo baegi vs repeated chung-myun baegi the_dojang: promotions the_dojang: Re: Punching [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 930 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steffen Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: Physics of Martial Arts > In the recent issue of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts there is > an examination of the vertical punch vs. the twisting straight > punch. Dempsey was used as one of the references in the study. ... Speaking of which, I had a "physics of martial arts" email list going for a while; it had pretty much died out (I really didn't have time to keep it going), and I was going to declare it dead. Jon Keeling has decided to try to ressurect the beast; head over to http://www.egroups.com/group/MAPhysics and check it out if you're interested. I expect it to remain a very low volume group, but you never know. We ran into several problems, not the least of which is that doing physics via email is really tough. (Well, doing physics is tough, period. Email makes it worse. ;-) Also, I ended up spending a lot of time teaching people basic physics - which I quite enjoy, but don't have time for right now (I was supposed to finish my thesis a month ago, argh). Plus, I'm beginning to suspect that any _real_ analysis of even the simplest martial art technique involves more physics than most people have, _certainly_ more physics than you'd get in freshman physics. I keep wanting to go off into resonant modes, eigenvalue problems, and continuous medium theories. ;-) Believe me, it's the kind of stuff only a physics major enjoys. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 Argh, it's late but I've got to throw in another $.02 ;-) > From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com > > The popularity of the twisting punch probably comes more > > from its inclination to tear open the skin when wearing a boxing glove > > that it does from its contribution of additional power to a punch. > > > > I agree with this assessment 100%. I disagree 100%, if for no other reason, than that we don't care about punching in boxing gloves. ;-) I agree there is _more_ potential to tear the skin in a real fight (what we train for), but a vertical punch can do that to. > In addition to the noted problems associated with the > twisting-wrist punch, I'd like to add that it also encourages the > practitioner to abduct the upper arm (winging the elbow to the > side) while punching, thus opening the flanks to attack for a > longer time than when punching with the fist vertically oriented > and thus the elbow pointing towards the ground. I agree that this is a common problem - all too common. What you've just described is a totally incorrect, but common, way to throw a traditional punch. The elbow _must_ stay down! I love fighting people who let that elbow come up. ;-) ;-) But that's not a problem with the traditional punch as such; it's just a problem with a lot of people not doing it right. Important distinction. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Joel Weissler Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:00:25 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #397 A few issues ago - someone asked about a form which they though was called bashaish or something like that. Being fond of forms, it came to mind, do you mean the form bassai (the Japanese spelling) - which is sometimes called Bal Sek ? It is sometimes also called the Cobra form. If so, email me privately - and perhaps I can help out (I have a couple of print versions and one or two versions on tape from my dojang). --- JSW ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:40:09 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: cha-oo baegi vs repeated chung-myun baegi Hai Dong Gumdo: repeated center cuts versus the left/right cut Well the intent of the downward cuts, as it was explained to me, is to strive to cut to the heart of the opponent. You want to develop an image of being able to slice through the head and down through the body until you cleave the heart, extra splitting of the body after that point is gravy. The cuts we perform start from your spine and travel in an ellipse until coming to a rest at the same level as your knees. This si farhter in both directions than would occur in combat. At the basic level of practice there is a trio of concepts to think about: speed, power and timing. For these cuts you want to develop speed of execution, power of delivery and the timing to launch them at the right time to really reap the maximum power and speed you have. This is an area I am always fighting with, personally. Later, these cuts are all about control. There does appear to be very little difference between cha-oo baegi and a repeated chung-myun baegi and most people are corrected for making too much of a difference than for not making them different enough. the blade starts vertical when you draw back to strike and stays that way until you launch the strike. At the time of release you push the handle of the blade to the left with your right hand. How far? Imagine a 45 degree angle through your head, not your body. This is the angle for the blade to travel down to the horizontal finishing position at knee height. It then comes back up straight to the spine. The second strike begins with pulling the blade to the right with the right hand and mirroring the first strike. The angle generated should be shallow but it allows a lot. It should impact the target at the base of the neck rather than the centre of the head. As it gets lower it should get closer and closer to center before merging at knee height. It should almost look like a very narrow Y to observers. You want the force to travel down and into the enemy rather than across the body. It is not an axe so you are trying to generate cutting power which requires the elliptical path for the sword tip. If you hit with too great an angle the sword will be taken off in a curve to the right for cha-baegi or left for oo-baegi. You can even experience this in cutting narrow objects like bamboo poles. The really tricky part is keeping the blade edge in line with the direction of travel. If you are off then the force of your swing is concentrated on the side flat of the blade instead of the blade edge. This will get your sword stuck or cause it to simply bounce off. You do move your hands very little distance to the right or left but the effect at the sword point is significant enough to miss the head of the imaginary enemy. The skill this cut tries to impart is control of the angle of cutting. The next cut combines the two cuts into one and refines the ability further while also stressing endurance. This stuff can get awfully muddled in text. Is this description clear enough? The center cut works on developing the mechanic of cutting - the elliptical path. The left/right cut works on developing control over the cutting angle. Anthony Boyd http://victorian.fortunecity.com/operatic/739 ------------------------------ From: Ann-Marie White Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:27:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: promotions Well, 3 badly jammed toes, 1 minor concussion (contusion), and 3 or 4 slightly compressed/jammed verterbrae later...I now am the proud, if a bit achy, wearer of a green belt. Yay! My new chiropracter is very happy as well *smile*. Ann-Marie - ---------------------------------------- Ann-Marie White, PhD Post-doctoral Associate Veterinary and Animal Sciences University of Massachusetts, Amherst Paige 409 P:413-545-5543 annmarie@vasci.umass.edu ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:52:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Punching The thread about punching reminded me of something my Dad (not a martial artist) told me years ago. We were discussing an injury to my hand, and Dad said the little finger knuckle on his right hand had been broken many times. I was a little unsure of how one might break that area (I'd had my hand hit with a sledge hammer ..DUH), and when asked how he'd done it Dad replied, "Hitting guys." Passed along for your enjoyment. Dave Weller Student wtf tkd “Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself.” Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #398 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.