From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 14 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 401 In this issue: the_dojang: Happy Birthday to us! Re: the_dojang: Byung In Yun the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #400 the_dojang: Super Supreme Grand Master with extra cheese the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #400 the_dojang: Re: Byung In Yoon Re: the_dojang: Super Supreme Grand Master with extra cheese Re: the_dojang: Re: Byung In Yoon [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 930 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Happy Birthday to us! Happy birthday to us. The_Dojang is now six year old! Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:13:56 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Byung In Yun > >>Didn't one of the kwan founders hold a fourth dan in Shudokan? I >>believe > >>this was the founder of Chang Moo Kwan (In Byung Yun). > > >What do you know? > > Not much. I remember reading that he was a fourth dan in Shudokan in an old > "Inside Taekwon-Do" article, which was actually on Nam Suk Lee the current > head of Chang Moo Kwan. (Or is he the founder and Byung In Yun was the > founder of the Yun Moo Kwan and the Chang Moo Kwan came from there?) In any > event, Byung In Yun trained in Chuan Fa (Kung Fu) while being raised in > Manchuria and then in Shudokan under Kanken Toyama in Japan. > > Also, I came upon this web site for Cha Yon Ryu (headed by GM Kim Soo): > http://www.kimsookarate.com/pages/yoonstory.html > > It has some interesting stories about Byung In Yun on it as well as saying > he was a fourth dan. Also, GM Kim Soo has an extensive lineage chart showing > all of his teachers and their teachers. Very interesting website. Thanks for sharing! > By the way, has anyone seen the recent article on the Chang Moo Kwan in > "Taekwon-Do Times"? Any thoughts? I was surprised to see that Gen. Choi was > from the "Mu Duk Kwan". They need a better editor, I guess ;). My copy hasn't arrived yet. Bummer... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:05:18 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #400 Ok I have a question maybe some of you can shed some light on. I was curious for those of you who agree in "cross training" from TKD into other systems like the Filipino Arts ie. Kali/ Indonesian Silat/ etc... When do you usually start this crosstraining in your students? Or do you just let the students decide this? Im curious due to I have a few beginers in TKD who like to learn TKD but like on Saturdays I kinda like to get away from all the rigourus kicking and punching and try to have fun with other systems like Kali/Silat. For the most part these guys enjoy this sort of thing. But one of my senior students is telling me he thinks thier not ready for this. I feel its the individuals own opinion to decide weather or not thier ready. You know in school since you start you take several differnt classes a day, like Math, Reading, History, Science etc.. you get the idea. So why should Martial Arts be any different? Why is most of these schools say they dont teach weapons or devestating arts until their students are a certain rank in TKD or Karate? I agree not to teach this stuff to kids, but for adults and people who have an interest in this I kind of see no problem in it. And if I felt they were being confused I would maybe stop. But they are enjoying learning the traps, locks, takedowns, disarms etc.... I have a friend of mine whos going to be in my area this Weekend and he's a certified instructor in "SIKAL" a hybrid of Kali/Silat and I thought saturday we could have an excellent class in these arts. But I got this student who thinks thier not ready for something like this. Wich I basically think it all boils down to the money issue for him. Im charging an extra $5 per student who is interested in learning this to at least help pay this individual who is coming in to share his knowledge with us... I feel its only fair for him to make a little something since he is driving over an Hour away to teach for 3 hours. He is happy with it although he said he would do it for nothing. Does anyone have any feed back on this? ChundoKwan TKD 2nd dan Cory ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:10:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Super Supreme Grand Master with extra cheese > From: Todd Miller > I believe that if one has to add to there title of GM, SUPREME there is > most definitely an ego problem with that individual. Then by your logic the title GRAND Master should seem a bit extreme. I agree with you Todd. What's wrong with just "Master"? Or for that matter why not just call a person "Founder" or "Coach 1st class" or "Teacher" or, now here's a revolutionary idea.... "John Smith". When people say "Bruce Lee" or "Gene LeBell" or "Kano" or "Yip Man" or "Helio Gracie" or "Joe Lewis" we don't have to add a title. A man's name should be enough. Just my opinion. John Bennett A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold. - Proverbs 22:1 ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:19:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #400 In a message dated 6/13/00 9:22:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << REME there is most definitely an ego problem with that individual. If you look at the various founders of different arts, how many of them add SUPREME to there title. When this or other similar titles are used it tells me that the person using it is trying to hide something and IS NOT SUPREME at all. Todd >> Good point i agree ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:08:01 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Byung In Yoon My lineage is partly through GM Kim Soo, so I have looked into the Chang Mu Kwan beginnings with great curiosity. Master Byung came to Japan after having studied Chun Fa in Manchuria. In Tokyo the story is he defended a friend from karate students and then found their dojo. The master of the dojo, Kanken Toyama, has listed Master Byung in his list of fourth dans (minimum) in Shudokan. The handwritten list is viewable on the net. Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:57:02 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Super Supreme Grand Master with extra cheese > Then by your logic the title GRAND Master should seem a bit extreme. > I agree with you Todd. > > What's wrong with just "Master"? Or for that matter why not just call > a person "Founder" or "Coach 1st class" or "Teacher" or, now here's a > revolutionary idea.... "John Smith". > > When people say "Bruce Lee" or "Gene LeBell" or "Kano" or "Yip Man" or > "Helio Gracie" or "Joe Lewis" we don't have to add a title. > > A man's name should be enough. Title inflation has progressed over the past years and, of course, the same title-name will mean different things in different styles/arts. This, IMHO, also adds to the changes we've seen in the last 30 or so years. But Bruce Lee was Sifu to his students. Kano was Professor. I've heard Yip Man and Helio referred to has Grandmaster. In the 70s I encountered very few Grandmasters and those few were all 9th Dans or the head of a family style. Now that 30 year olds are starting to use the term Grandmaster (ok, imo if the head of a family style) it seems that the title inflation will continue. Is it a bad thing? IMHO, in the greater scheme of things, not really. Afterall, it isn't like we're going to change it. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:57:47 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Byung In Yoon > friend from karate students and then found their dojo. The master of the > dojo, Kanken Toyama, has listed Master Byung in his list of fourth dans > (minimum) in Shudokan. The handwritten list is viewable on the net. Do you have the URL for that handwritten list? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.