From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #402 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 14 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 402 In this issue: the_dojang: Summit the_dojang: titles the_dojang: Happy Birthday! the_dojang: Re: Dempsey the_dojang: RE: Happy Birthday to us! the_dojang: Supreme omnipotant flawless and wise Grandmaster the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 the_dojang: six year olds the_dojang: www.wkf.org/shudokan.list.html [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 930 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Choi" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 03:48:29 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Summit Greetings from Seoul, Korea. After trying to post several times, I'm sending a plain text message that should go through (sorry Ray, replying via Outlook Express caused the problems). I'm here to study Korean language at Yonsei University Korean Language Institute. I also managed to land a part-time job, so finding time for hapkido won't be easy. I have been training a couple weeks at the (Sa Dan Bub In) Korea Hapkido ChunDoKwan Central Dojang which is headed by Grandmaster Yu, Chun Hee. I believe that Grandmaster Yu was one of Grandmaster Ji, Han Jae's original students. (There are many black and white pictures that include him with Hapkido DoJuNim Choi, Yong Sool and Grandmaster Ji, Han Jae.) Grandmaster Yu taught Master Won, Kil-soo who taught Master Harold Whalen, the head of Hapkido MooYeKwan, which I am a member of. The black belts at the school are very good! I'm relearning everything, but now I am getting a better understanding of all the nuances that are absolutely essential when applying hapkido techniques. Hopefully, I will be able to manage between my studies and work enough so that I can train. With regards to the Korea summit. Like all the press in Asia is saying, it is historic! My personal interpretation: seeing President Kim, Dae-Jung and Chairman Kim, Jung-il shake hands materializes the future of friendly relations between the two Koreas, ultimately leading to reunification. For all of you Taekwondo people, Dr. Un Yong Kim is in Pyongyang, North Korea to discuss a joint Korea Olympic team with North Korea Olympic Committee head. (North Korea is sending a WTF-style Taekwondo team to Australia, I believe.) Also Chung Mong Joon will discuss a joint Korea soccer team for the World Cup. Sincerely, Michael Choi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:08:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: titles Although I am of Korean descent, I don't like being called by any titles. In Korea, it's expected to address people by titles followed by -nim. Nim is the Sino-Korean character for "Lord" or "Sir." In linguistic terms, it's an honorific. Just because someone is an expert in so-and-so, does not necessarily mean that the person deserves my respect. Just because someone has a PhD, does not necessarily mean that he is a good, admirable person. Nietsche was brilliant, but his writings inspired Hitler to kill Jews. Personally I would only want to address someone as "Master" if he truly reflects the quality of such a sage. If I ever had "disciples," I would never permit them to address me as "Master" unless they did it of their own volition. In Ancient Asia, Kings ruled by "the Mandate of Heaven." It's something akin to the European Concept of the "Divine Right of Kings." Kings came to power by the intervention of Divine forces in Heaven and have a mandate to rule justly. If they should abuse their power, the people have the right to overthrow the ruler as he has lost his mandate. That shows that people of position have the responsibility to perform justly or lose his position. That principle applies to martial art instructors as well. Instructors who may have great technical skill, but do not behave morally and abuse their children have abrogated their right to be called "master." By the way: I learned in middle school, that the title master is used to address a male who is not yet an adult. Hey English teachers, is that true? Sincerely, Michael Choi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:53:22 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Happy Birthday! Happy Birthday to the US Army and those who serve our great nation. The US Army is 225 years old. SSG Jim Mahan ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:56:13 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dempsey << Could you tell me who the publisher is, please? >> "Championship Fighting" by Jack Dempsey Published by Nicholas Kaye, London (printed for Nicholas Kaye Ltd. at the St Ann's Press, Park Road, Altrincham, and entirely produced in Great Britan) Again, this book is out of print and you just have to look for it. It took me quite a while to find one. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Davis Chuck-QGNG23 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:11:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Happy Birthday to us! Ray, Quite doing that, you're making me feel old :) Congratulations on the staying power this list obviously has. Chuck From: Ray Terry Happy birthday to us. The_Dojang is now six year old! Ray ------------------------------ From: Todd Miller Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:46:48 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Supreme omnipotant flawless and wise Grandmaster > > Then by your logic the title GRAND Master should seem a bit extreme. > > I agree with you Todd. > > > > What's wrong with just "Master"? Or for that matter why not just call > > a person "Founder" or "Coach 1st class" or "Teacher" or, now here's a > > revolutionary idea.... "John Smith". > > > > When people say "Bruce Lee" or "Gene LeBell" or "Kano" or "Yip Man" or > > "Helio Gracie" or "Joe Lewis" we don't have to add a title. > > > > A man's name should be enough. > > Title inflation has progressed over the past years and, of course, the > same title-name will mean different things in different styles/arts. This, > IMHO, also adds to the changes we've seen in the last 30 or so years. > > But Bruce Lee was Sifu to his students. Kano was Professor. I've heard > Yip Man and Helio referred to has Grandmaster. > > In the 70s I encountered very few Grandmasters and those few were all 9th Dans > or the head of a family style. Now that 30 year olds are starting to use > the term Grandmaster (ok, imo if the head of a family style) it seems that > the title inflation will continue. Is it a bad thing? IMHO, in the greater > scheme of things, not really. Afterall, it isn't like we're going to change > it. > > Ray Terry I personally have no problem with the term Grandmaster but I do feel it is over used. I address my teacher as Grandmaster and feel fine about it. I feel that in the Mudo arrogance has no place and I will continue to stand by my convictions even though I may not change the way things and others are. I have found that when one uses an inflated title they do it for wrong reasons. How can there be a right reason for inflated titles? Todd ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:47:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 Couldn't refind handwritten list, might have been an illusion, but here is the link to a transcription in English. http://www.wkf.org/shudokan.list.html Third name on the list. (Not sure of the order, alphabetical or chronological, my Japanese is sparse) Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 06:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: six year olds > The_Dojang is now six year old! And it appears that I still speak like one... :) Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 7:17:09 PDT Subject: the_dojang: www.wkf.org/shudokan.list.html > Couldn't refind handwritten list, might have been an illusion, but here is > the link to a transcription in English. > > http://www.wkf.org/shudokan.list.html > > Third name on the list. (Not sure of the order, alphabetical or > chronological, my Japanese is sparse) Interesting comment on the above page: "Toyama's specialties in karate-do were strong gripping methods (Useishi No Kata and the Aku Ryoku Ho) of Itosu and Itarashiki and similar Chinese methods of finger and hand strengthening. He was the author of books Karate-do Taihokan and Karate-do. In 1949 Toyama was awarded a special title of honor by the Governor of Okinawa, Mr. Shikioku Koshin. Aside from learning Shorin-Ryu from Itosu, Toyama studied and mastered other styles of karate from other notable masters of Naha-te and Tomari-te which also included Okinawan Kobu-do. A few of his other teachers were Aragaki, Azato, Chibana, Oshiro, Tana, and Yabu." "It is also thought that when the Korean (Ch'uan fa) master, Yoon Byung-In came to train at his gymnasium, he also studied Northern Manchurian Kwan-bop with him. It is alleged that Toyama Kanken said that he and Yoon Byung-In should share techniques. Later Yoon Byung-In returned to Korea as a shihan of the Shudokan and taught that style there." Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #402 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.