From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #403 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 14 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 403 In this issue: the_dojang: Titles the_dojang: Re: Titles the_dojang: Re: Dempsey Book the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 the_dojang: Happy B-day Dojang the_dojang: Need some terms in Korean the_dojang: Re: Chung do kwan rank & Choi the_dojang: TKD History - Draft the_dojang: Cory-integration of arts [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 930 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:15:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Titles Yes...It's true!... Master is the term used for a male not yet of adult age or old enough to be considered a Mister...but there a few other contexts in which it is used... The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:20:57 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Titles Michael Choi wrote << By the way: I learned in middle school, that the title master is used to address a male who is not yet an adult. Hey English teachers, is that true? >> Well, I'm not an English teacher, but I know that (back when we had Emily Post etiquette) "Master" was used to refer to males under 16. At 17 you became a "Mister" and that was supposed to be the best you could be under our system of democratic etiquette. : ) Sally ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:28:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dempsey Book Alain wrote << "Championship Fighting" by Jack Dempsey Published by Nicholas Kaye, London (printed for Nicholas Kaye Ltd. at the St Ann's Press, Park Road, Altrincham, and entirely produced in Great Britan) Again, this book is out of print and you just have to look for it. It took me quite a while to find one. >> I just did a search on Bookfinders.com (just about the best old/used book service on the net) -- Lots of Dempsey autobios, but nothing with this title. If you're really interested in finding it, you might check with your local library and see whether they can get it for you on an inter-library loan. Sally ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:00:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #401 > From: Ray Terry > Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:56:20 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Happy Birthday to us! > > Happy birthday to us. > > The_Dojang is now six year old! > > Ray > > ------------------------------ > > Fwip... fnoo... phwaaa... lplplplppp....... OK, I give up. Does anyone know how to do those party-favor blow-out things in e-mail? =P Many happy returns, Ray! Kerry WTF TKD ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:54:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Happy B-day Dojang Congratulations on you List Birthday. A great list to be proud of Ray. Jeremy ------------------------------ From: Rudolph George-P27574 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:57:13 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Need some terms in Korean All, I'd like to know the Korean terms for "sticky hands" ("chi sau" in Chinese) "grabbing hands" and "drunken fist". This does have a practical application--I'm working with my instructors to develop variations of forms and techniques in our system for someone (in this case me) who has CP (affecting my legs). The result is that I currently have the following restrictions: 1. no kicks 2. limited spinning/turning My strategy for modifications to things is to keep the same general flow, targets, principles as in the originals, but incorporate more sticky hands, leaning, grabbing, poking, drunken-style principles into the variations as needed. (Note: I don't like the connotations of the term "drunken-style" but I don't know what else to call it, except maybe "dancing-style"). I've got the variations done--I'm looking for a nice descriptive name like "dancing-tree" variation. You get the idea. Suggestions? Thanks. - --------------- George Rudolph Mad Scientist Motorola SSG - --------------- ------------------------------ From: "Carl W" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:48:54 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Chung do kwan rank & Choi >From: HwarangTSD@aol.com >Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:32:46 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: Re:Gen Choi > >The civilian Kwan to which you refer is the Chung Do Kwan, from which he >received an honorary 4th dan from the CDK president of that time, Song Duk >Sung. Incidentally, on 15 June 1959, that ranking was revoked for >"mishandling affairs and because of false statements he made concerning his >experience and position (Choi claimed years experience and proclaimed >himself >highest ranking martial artist in Korea)". > >Also interesting to ote in this vein, Chung Han Kwan (Choi's ITF TKD) was >not >formed until 22 March 65. So this brings to my mind the question, since >Choi >received his 2nd dan while attendind Yonsei University circa 1937, why >would >he have needed Chung Do Kwan rank? If Taekwondo's history should start with >him, then should it start when he "proposed" the name, when he was studying >Shotokan, or when Chung Han Kwan was founded? If any of these are to be the >case, then what about the histories of Chung Do, Chang Moo, Song Moo, Ji Do >and Moo Duk, which incidentally are the original 5 kwans? > >Something to think about. IMHO, Choi only assisted in standardizing what >was >being taught, but until he founded Chung Han, he was not the founder of >anything. > >Master Frank Clay > It must of been quite a scandal when in 1959, a time that Choi was probably at, or near, the apex of his authority, that the Chung Do Kwan stripped a Brigadier General of the Korean army of his dan rank! Would you provide me the the source of this information? Each of the kwans have their own history, indeed some are still active. However, and perhaps more controversial, I wonder to what extent the arts practiced by the kwans are actually Taekwon-Do. I will be posting a bit more on this aspect but from what info I am gathering the arts they practiced are different than 'taekwon-do' (this of course depends on how 'taekwon-do' is defined). As well, the kwans were more or less forced to organize under the name TaeKwon-Do for political purposes, rather than for the similarities or differences between their arts. The term "taekwon-do" thus became a generic term. I could be wrong. It certainly has happened before! But it is interesting fodder. Taekwon! Carl W. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Carl W" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:54:03 MDT Subject: the_dojang: TKD History - Draft This is a DRAFT of a section of a research project paper that I am working on. I know many will disagree with me, and thats fine. I would appreciate "helpful" comments, suggestions, and especially sources regardless of whether they support or refute the arguments. General Choi developed the foundation of the original TaeKwon-Do from 1946 to 1955. The new techniques were neither TaeSooDo, Tang Soo, or other Korean karate styles, nor were they Taek Kyun. However, many changes and refinements have occurred since 1955, such as the completion of the entire 24 Chang Hon patterns, sine wave movement, and the replacement of Kodang with Juchi. As General Choi rose in authority and responsibility within the Korean army, he was able to ensure that the techniques developed by him were taught to the troops, rather than those of Japenese karate styles. However, even in 1953, when Choi enlisted Nam Tae Hi and Han Cha Kyo to propagate his art throughout the Korean army, the martial art style that they were teaching, was still called Tang Soo. In June of 1954, General Choi organized a demonstration of his martial art (still not called TaeKwon-Do at this time), as part of the cermony to commenorate the 1st Birthday of the 29th Infantry Division. This was the demonstration that was conducted in front of President Rhee, where Nam Tae Hi broke roofing tiles with his fist. The President was so impressed with the demonstration that he stated "I want to see all of our soldiers train in this Art". However, after the demonstration, President Rhee referred to the art that had been demonstrated as Taek Kyun. It was at this point that General Choi realized that he desperately needed a new name for his martial art. The name he chose was, TaeKwon-Do. As this art was the one being taught to the Korean troops, General Choi, rather than proclaiming the name himself, felt that it would be wise to create an advisory committee to proclaim the name TaeKwon-Do. This meeting took place on April 11th, 1955. The committee was comprised of many prominent citizens, including the commander in chief of the army, presidents of newspaper companies, leaders of the klwans, etc... General Choi explained the significance of the name TaeKwon-Do and asked for the committee's approval. The committee members eventually agreed on the name TaeKwon-Do, although some members initially favoured the names Tang Soo and Kong Soo. In any case, it was necessary to submit the name Taekwon-Do to President Rhee, for approval. President Rhee initially rejected the name instead preferring the name Taek Kyun. However, General Choi, with the help of the President's Chief of Staff, was able to get President Rhee to accept the name Taekwon-Do. When Rhee finally did accept the name TaeKwon-Do, Choi ordered his students to greet each other with a "Taekwon!" Although this was not the end of the battle for the name TaeKwon-Do to be used to describe General Choi's martial art, this was the first time that the name TaeKwon-Do was used in the Korean military to describe the style that they had been learning. As well, this is the first time that a martial art had officially been termed "TaeKwon-Do". Again, this martial art style (TaeKwon-Do) was the martial art developed (founded?) by General Choi. While the kwans had not operated under the name "TaeKwan-Do" until the early 1960's for various reasons, they were eventually required to replace the signs on their gyms with "TaeKwon-Do" signs. However, it is likely that the arts practiced at these kwans were not the "TaeKwon-Do", as developed by Choi Hong Hi. Rather, each kwan had its own style, some of which prosper to this day. In a way then, Taekwon-Do developed a second, more generic, definition as an umbrella term referring to Korean martial arts, as well as for the political organizations (ie., KTA) that represented them. The first , and original, definition of the term TaeKwon-Do means the martial art style developed, created, founded by General Choi Hong Hi. It wasn't until 1962 that General Choi began to stand up against the attempts of the Korean government to use Taekwon-Do for its own, purposes. As a result, he was forced to resign from the army and was apppointed as the Korean ambassador to Malaysia (this says to me that despite being unpopular with the government, he still held a lot of power and political clout). For my dollar (62 cents U.S), if Choi Hong Hi created, developed, propagated, named, organized, and otherwise led the martial art style called TaeKwon-Do, then he did in fact found it. This does not mean that the General founded, or whatever, any other martial art style that calls itself TaeKwon-Do. Each of those have their own history, roots, and influences. It would just be less confusing if they didn't call their art TaeKwon-Do. BTW, currently the best source of (summarized) information on the history and development of TaeKwon-Do is the January, 2000 edition of The TaeKwon-Do Times, which has an extensive 14 page interview with General Choi. TaeKwon! Carl W. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Oregfightingarts@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:06:57 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Cory-integration of arts I come from a mixed MA background, but use TKD as a base art. I start integrating other arts at the white belt level. The students learn TKD, a combo of chang hun and wtf. They learn the chang hun forms as well as the taegue series. At 4th gup, I even throw in the 1st of 5 okinawan kata. Sparring includes non-contact (itf) style, wtf rules, open style(full & light contact), and anything goes (almost). Students are gradually taken from non to full contact sparring, once their control and ability increase. I created sets of self defense techniques (4 per belt) that have 3 variations in each. A=release, B=release & counter, C=release,counter, finishing strike/hold/takedown etc. eg: white belts learn 1a-4 a. yellow learns 1 b-4b, and 5a-8a, green 1 learns 1c-4c, 5b-8b, & 9a-12a.....and so on. This way, a student will learn to escape/avoid a grab(jujitsu), counter(TKD), and finish (combo of both). Their self defense skills increase with every belt increase, and they learn to add on to techniques. Each belt also has one-step techniques. In the higher ranks, there are 2 variations of the move, but mostly they focus on common attacks (punches, bad kicks, tackles etc.). One steps start by defending using TKD, but soon begin integration of Aiki and Jujitsu techniques. I dont start teaching weapons defense till about 5th gup, but everyone is required to complete a firearms safety course and keep current on CPR. Situational avoidance & verbal de-escalation begin at 8th gup. Baton & firearms training begins at 2nd gup. I want students to have a good understanding of all martial concepts from avoidance to empty hand to firearms by the time they reach Black. I have trained at schools where they only do 2 things.....kick a pad and spar. To me, that is boring, and I believe that it produces martial artists who are limited in their ability to defend themself or others. Mark Gajdostik Oregon Fighting Arts ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #403 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.