From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #499 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 26 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 499 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: learning forms in advance the_dojang: Re: Learning forms early the_dojang: Re: learning forms the_dojang: Cloning Patterns the_dojang: Learning forms the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #498 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 920 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sarah Pride Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:41:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: learning forms in advance >>>1.) No resource -- whether it be a book, video, CD or web site -- can show you every intricacy of a pattern that you should (in theory) know before moving along to the next level. No resource even comes close to giving you what the combined effort of master instructors and dedicated fellow students contribute to your knowledge of a pattern.<<< I quite agree with you on this part. I neglected to mention that I have four younger brothers and sisters in a children's class that goes up through 8th geup. I always go and watch their class. So while I was teaching myself Tae Geuk 2 and 3, I was carefully watching the instructors teaching these two forms to the younger kids. That's why I did not learn Tae Geuk 4 in advance: I had no opportunity of watching anyone when I wanted to learn, because in the adult class we have a "break" where there are no students at the level just above the one I and three other siblings are at. Plus, a double knife-hand block is not something you can figure out just by yourself. >>>2.) (And this is the biggest, by far.) Learning a pattern in advance detracts from your ability to perfect your current form, no matter how well you think you know it. This might seem like common sense, but let me expand that statement a bit. I firmly believe that you should practice a form at least 300 times before being considered for a test. (If you go to class three times a week for six months, practicing once every class, that's only 78 times!) Maybe this is being too difficult, but I personally don't believe so....<<< I haven't seen this happening at all. I practice whatever form we are learning in class at least eight-ten times a day. I also practice all my other forms at least once. I have found that over time, no matter which forms I am "just learning," all my forms improve with this practice schedule. At two months between each color-belt testing time, that would mean I practice a form more than 500 times. Sufficient, yes? None of my brothers and sisters practice even half that much, but then none of them are trying to learn forms early. It all depends on how much time you have, and are willing to spend, on your TKD. - -Sarah Pride- P.S. For those of you counting, yes, there are 8 kids from my family taking TKD. My dad says he will start next month. :) ------------------------------ From: Sarah Pride Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:51:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Learning forms early >>>For everyone: what approach do you like better when you are learning? The, "Okay, here's the first 12 moves" approach, or "Okay, your new form has several square blocks in it.....here is how to properly perform a square block. Let's do some floor drills with them, etc.....Now, let's start to learn the form......"????<<< Hrrm, good question. I guess my answer would be that we have already learned all the basics for a new form by the time we get to it in class. When white belts, we practiced all the blocks, kicks, stances and punches before we started learning our first form. And so it went on, through the levels. I imagine it would be incredibly hectic to learn new concepts as you go through a form for the first time. And it's funny, until now I hadn't even thought that the reason we were practicing all that stuff was to prepare us for that level's form! :) - -Sarah Pride- ------------------------------ From: TKDAZZKIKR@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:00:47 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: learning forms I just wanted to thank everyone who has and continues to post on the subject of learning forms. This is probably my biggest stumbling block in TKD. Sparring and one-steps don't pose much of a problem, but when it comes to my forms, it's like my brain shuts down completely! I really appreciate all the insight I've gained reading the posts on this subject! Stephanie ------------------------------ From: "Carl W" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:14:51 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Cloning Patterns >From: "Rudy Timmerman" Your comments on the difficulties of "cloning" patterns got me thinking about the team pattern competitions at our tournaments. I'll have to videotape the next ones I attend and look carefully for individual differences within the same team as they perform, as well as between teams. Should be interesting to watch from an enhanced perspective. Thanks! > >No doubt, I make sure that the underlying principles are clearly >understood, >and neither do I make (or allow students to make) changes for the sake of >change. On the other hand, I give my students the opportunity to make >themselves look best. Well put! Taekwon Carl W. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:10:33 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Learning forms Mark Lasich wrote: > For the Instructors out there: do you like just jumping in and teaching the > form, or do you start with "here's what you'll see that is new in this > form"? Personally, I like starting with developing solid technique on those > moves that are "new" to that form - then when you actually get to that part > of the form, it is no longer a "new" move. I suppose there are as many different ways to look at this as there are Instructors out there. In my Dojang, I first explain the underlying principles of the form. Sometimes this may be to introduce a particular new technique, other times this may be to teach a particular way to move, still other times it is just designed as a form of exercise, etc. Whatever it is, unless the student understands WHAT we are trying to accomplish, the form merely becomes just another route to walk around the Dojang. After the students understand the reasons why we do the form, it has been my experience that they will try harder to do the form in the manner it is required to achieve the goal. One of my pet peaves is to see a student go through a form without attempting to make it the best form they ever did, and I constantly find myself telling them that poor practice does not make good Black Belts (or any other belt). Next, I try to break down the form into small parts, and use these parts as basics for the rank in which the form is required. I do this even to the point where my workout exercises incorporate these basics wherever possible. For instance, I will have my students do a complete calesthenic workout holding onto a staff (if we are going to work on the Bong). In this manner, they will become more familiar with the weapon. All of these things are designed around a specific time table that allows for enough variety to keep students from becoming bored. A good Instructor must be creative enough to find many different ways to do the same thing without teaching the WHOLE thing. Once a student thinks he or she has learned the whole thing, they often want to go on to the next thing. This brings me to another issue recently discussed at length. It appears that a considerable number of students out there use whatever means they can to pick up the next form (books and videos etc.). To me, this does not make sense. It takes a certain amount of time to fully grasp the intricacies of a form, and the originators of forms normally have considered this in the design of their curriculum. To go ahead of this schedule merely robs a student of the time it takes to "master" whatever the form was designed to teach the student. Novice martial artists always seem to think that the next higher form or technique is better than the last one they learned, and they can't wait to start working on the new things. Little do they know that by doing this, they adverseley affect their progress. It is like learning Calculus before you have a good grasp of basic math. It just won't work! Respecfully, Rudy W. Timmerman National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Rudolph George-P27574 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:35:30 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #498 > We use three step sparring as a more introductory sparring drill. > For white belts three-step is always done on the same side. The > only difference between three-step and one-step is there are > three punches to block in three-step. One-step only has one punch I have been taught that 1-step, 3-step and 2-step sparring drills are designed to emphasize and teach different principles and concepts. The way I have been taught, the differences are more than just the number of punches or the style of attack/defense used. 1-step sparring is designed to teach basic movement, blocks and strikes. 3-step sparring is designed to teach (primarily) maintaining distance and timing relative to an attacker--you move when/as they move. 2-step sparring is designed to teach using movement to create your own openings and targets--whereas in 3-step sparring you move in cadence with your attacker, in 2-steps you deliberately break that rhythm. Erik also mentioned that his school uses 3-step sparring as an introduction to sparring for white belts. This may be fine, but if that's all it's used for, then it is not being used to it's full potential for training and learning. - ------------- George Rudolph - -------------- ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:50:38 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #499 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.