From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
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Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502
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The_Dojang-Digest            Fri, 28 July 2000         Vol 07 : Num 502

In this issue:

       the_dojang: Re: WTF Poomsae
       the_dojang: Comment of ICHF VP posting
       the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla.
       the_dojang: Re: Standard forms and Kukkiwon
       the_dojang: AWSDA Conference Night Out
       the_dojang: Re: When to learn kicks..(was New Thread)
       the_dojang: .
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Pil Seung!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand <torvill@trolldata.no>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:36:50 +0200
Subject: the_dojang: Re: WTF Poomsae

>SESilz: I took a minute to click on the "WTF Poomsae" link provided on 
>your page.
>  I only briefly looked at two patterns and spotted an error in each.  To me,
>this casts doubt about the whole site, so I'd like to recommend caution in
>promoting this link.

On the contrary, I would like to recommend YOU to be cautious when making 
such a blunt statement.

You may be correct about this, but who knows? I know of specific parts of 
the Tae Geuks where several Kukkiwon-certified 9th dans differ from the 
Kukkiwon text book in their teachings. Are they wrong or should we accept 
different dialects of these forms.

Anyhow: in general it is disrespectful of you to just state what you stated 
- - especially when you gave no reference/documentation regarding the nature 
of these alledged errors.

(BTW: I have nothing to do with the mentioned forms-site)

Sincerely,
Anders Torvill Bjorvand


------------------------------

From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" <Michael.Rowe@sitel.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:02:44 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Comment of ICHF VP posting

Michael Choi writes:

<<I know that I'm referring to an email way back in the past, but as I
recall, someone posted ICHF Vice President's (Jurgen Schmidt?)>>

You are correct this post was in the distant past. Heck it was about two
years old (I know since I am the one that forwarded the reply from VP
Schmidt).

<<Personally, I cannot see Grandmaster Myung accepting ICHF President's 
transfer over to World KiDo Association under Grandmaster Seo, In Suh. 
Korean society doesn't work that way.>>

Funny, a well respected korean instrutor and historian GM Kimm states that
it is common practice for students to have many teachers in their life. And
after looking back over your teachers you would choose one that had the most
influence on you and your development and call them your teacher. 

<<					 Loyalty is an extremely important 
principle to Koreans because person-to-person relationship is the basis of 
society. Heck, Korean scholars even have debated on the whole issue, whether
there are 3 or 7 key relationships (the 3/7 debate).>>

Loyalty is extreamly important. However, even Koreans, and I have know a few
in my life 8?), will not give loyalty to a person who abuses it. Oh, they
may show token respect but it is not real and you will know it when you see
it.

<< If Pelligrini was 
Myung's disciple (as a member of WHF, he would be considered as one), then 
basically the parent-child relationship would apply. Grandmaster Myung would
have taken personally responsibility to support and nurture his disciple, 
then-Master Pelligrini, to be a prominent senior in the organization. 
then-Master Pelligrini would have the understood obligation to help build 
WHF and take care of its head, Grandmaster Myung. To just switch over to 
another organization, would be considered disloyal as it shows 
ungratefulness.>>

However, this is not Korea and GM Pellegrini is not a Korean but Italian. If
a relationship is started and nurtured and respect is given on all sides the
relationship grows. However, if I give you a position of leadership but do
not allow you to lead then there is no real leadership. GM Pellegrini may
well have his reasons for leaving. What were they I don't know and neither
do you. When Grandmasters and leaders of organizations are unfaithful they
rarely get or give straight answers.

<<Although there are dojangs nearer to my apartment than Hapkido Chun Do Kwan 
Central Dojang, I go there because of my loyalty to Master Whalen who has 
lineage to that school. The good thing is that Grandmaster Yu recognizes the
relationship has extended every courtesy, treating me as his own family, 
since I have decided to continue my training at his school.>>

And after having some posts with Master Whalen I can say I believe your
loyalty is not misplaced on him. He seems, at least to me, to be a
knowledgeable and respectful instructor. 

<<Having a varied background is great, as long as its based on mutual
respect and loyalty. My post is not a criticism of ICHF, its curriculum, or 
ESPECIALLY its members. Rather, I question ICHF President's switch from 
World Hapkido Federation to World Kido Association. (Sorry Ray for the 
extremely long post.)>>

You just stated it "mutual respect and loyalty" it has to work both ways. 
GM Pellegrini has found a home in the Kido Hwa and has remained a strong
supporter of it since his acceptence by GM In Sun Seo. GM Pellegrini did not
find the same acceptence with GM Myung and the WHF so he left, plain and
simple.

Michael Rowe
Nebraska Director - ICHF

------------------------------

From: "Lasich, Mark D." <Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:12:14 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla.

Okay - I'll risk opening a Pandora's box here:

My line of thinking is that in sparring you want to be fast and light.
Deliberately focusing on adding POWER to your techniques can possibly slow
you down and make your techniques easier to spot and you easier to score on!
You are not breaking boards during sparring, so why the focus on power?

Fast and light sparring can result in "modified" techniques. For example, I
would probably not want to turn my hip completely into a round kick, or a
side kick. This is not to say that you shouldn't. But by not, you are not
over-committing to a specific technique. So, I can, perhaps, more easily
throw a front kick immediately after a round kick. Or you can at least throw
a number of repeat kicks without wearing yourself out! - RELAX.

Does this modification impact the delivery of power? Probably, but this is
not to say that these types of techniques are completely devoid of power.
Often times the force of a kick is completely felt - and you are glad the
person's hip wasn't fully into that side kick!

Leaning back may reduce the penetration of your kicks, but it also increases
the distance of your body for a counter attack. If you don't focus on the
power aspect, perhaps you can utilize the *benefits* of _slightly_ leaning
back to keep you out of your partner's zone! Also, a good pair of sparring
boots will do WONDERS for your mental block, as you suddenly feel immune to
those clashes that always seem to hurt!

Either way, enjoy your sparring, the reflexes and spontaneity it helps you
generate really help to add to the fun!

Mark Lasich
mark.lasich@alcoa.com

------------------------------

From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand <torvill@trolldata.no>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:28:41 +0200
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Standard forms and Kukkiwon

>Anders wrote: <<<Not correct. The Kukkiwon (WTF) claims no set of standard 
>forms except for
>testing at the Kukkiwon in person.>>>
>
>YMCATKD@aol.com wrote: Sorry to say but this is totally false.  The 
>Kukkiwon recognises The Taeguek
>forms as the primary forms and Palgwe as secondary.  This came straight from
>the Kukkiwon when I was there.   There are instructors that promote people
>based on other sets of forms however all instructors promoting through
>Kukkiwon direct or in this country the USTU should be teaching the Taeguek
>forms.

Anders then writes again: You took my statement out of context. According 
to the Kukkiwon text book there is no doubt that the tae geuks are the 
officially recognized form - no doubt about it. When it comes to the 
palgwes, I don't know what common practice is nowadays, but I can't find 
any mention of the palgwes in my edition. I doubt that they have

Anyhow: I think we can agree that the tae geuks is the only officially 
sanctioned forms - this was not my point.

My point is that this is not required for testing. According to the 
articles 5.1 and 5.2 of the testing rules found in the kukkiwon text book, 
most places any kukkiwon-certified instructor can recommend promotions to 
dan/poom himself. This has to do with the penetration of WTF-affiliated 
clubs. In the USA this number is low, so USTU has no exclusivity on this.

There are many guidelines as to curriculum in the textbook, however the 
only real requirement is to have a kukkiwon certified instructor recommend 
you. And this is happening. Many are promoted to high kukkiwon ranks based 
on eg the chang hun set. I personally know of several such, and I know that 
their certificates are not phoney since some have broken out and joined the 
WTF and with no problem been promoted from there on which means that they 
have been properly registered in Seoul.

Sincerely,
Anders Torvill Bjorvand


------------------------------

From: TaoArt@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:43:28 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: AWSDA Conference Night Out

In the beginning of August, Seattle will host the American Women's Self 
Defense Association annual conference.  This post is for all who plan on 
attending.

Attention all AWSDA Attendees:

One night during the conference, a bunch of us will be going out for a night 
on the town.  There is one little hitch however... we will all be "Punk'd 
Out".  This means leather, chains, spikes, wild hair, spandex, biker boots, 
fake (or real) tattoos, whatever-you-wouldn't-want-to-be-caught-dead-in.

The goal is to party til we drop at the local dance clubs.  We will shoot for 
either walking distance clubs or have a designated driver.  The only rule for 
the night:  We go out together, we come back together.

Hope y'all can make it.  Bring your best outrageous outfit.  I might even 
have a few spare chains and bandanas if your wardrobe is lacking.

Please email me if you are interested... we're trying to get a headcount.

Meghan

PS  Hope you stop by and check out my "Defending With a Knife" class.
PPS  We will also be holding an "impromptu" Underwater Self Defense class in 
the hotel pool during the conference.  Details will be at check in.


Meghan Gardner
Guard Up, Inc.
www.GuardUp.com

"Carry love in your heart and a knife in your pocket at all times."   me

------------------------------

From: Cplr50@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:23:52 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: When to learn kicks..(was New Thread)

Scribe,

    Its an interesting question you raise, 
    I come from method 2.. I learned most of my kicks (from a non TKD system, 
WuShu and Jujitsu )  very early on (except a couple of high risk spinning 
jumping types).  For me it seemed logical, the forms we did called for 
various techniques, and we learned what we needed to do the form.  Many years 
later, when I came to TKD, I was surprised in how restrictive it was when it 
came to dishing out "stuff".  I think that it comes from TKD's goal oriented 
belt promotions.  To get to the next level one must "know" x y and z and 3 
abc's etc. etc. .. In hindsight, I must have stunk up the air for a longer 
period of time while "perfecting" each of these techniques.  Howerver, I 
think that it allowed my sparring to move along quicker.  I had more 
techniques to draw upon, and was able to choose combinations that naturally 
flowed for me.

On the other hand, TKD forced me to focus on one thing at a time, and it 
required me to develope and refine each tool/technique more.  It also gave me 
someting to look forward to after each promotion. 

    As such, years later..I am teaching my students the way I 
learned...everything early on and let them pick and choose what works best 
for them.  When I notice that someone is favoring one technique over another, 
or avoiding one like the plague, I will force them to work on it, a bit more 
than the rest.  In this way, I believe that I'm keeping them honest, and 
helping them to develope "Proper" tools.

I think that both methods are valid, but may not fit into every system out 
there. 

Stone




In a message dated 07/27/2000 9:18:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TKDScribe 
writes:

>     I have found, basically, that kicks are introduced in one of two ways 
in 
>  virtually every dojang I have seen.  Either techniques are introduced more 
> or  less one-at-a-time, with the next technique being taught after 
reasonable 
>  competence is shown with the prior one.  This, BTW, is how I was taught 
and 
>  how I teach.  I later encountered schools where pretty much every kick is  
>  presented at  the white belt level.

>      At first, I thought this to be an abomination, but l later recognized 
>  that these studios managed to produce quality students, too.  In fact, 
> though  they were pretty terrible early on, by the time they had practiced 
several 
>  years and became decent in technique, they had the advantage of possessing 
>  roughly equal facility with all their kicks in sparring.  
>      My students, on the other hand may have been more masterful with their 
>  roundhouse kicks earlier on, but had difficulty incorporating back hook 
kick,
>  
>  for example, in their sparring.
>      Any thoughts or observations regarding this contrast in teaching 
>  methodology?
>  SESilz 

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:25:03 PDT
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502
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