From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 28 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 503 In this issue: the_dojang: Bill "Superfoot" Wallace Seminar the_dojang: Re: loyalty the_dojang: reply to Mr. Rowe's response the_dojang: Loyalty the_dojang: Re: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. the_dojang: Re: Sparring the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 920 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Gibson" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:35:04 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Bill "Superfoot" Wallace Seminar Hi my name is Adam Gibson. I will be hosting a seminar conducted by the "Lengendary" Bill "Superfoot" Wallace on Saturday, October 21st, 2000 at 1pm. It will be taking place in Bowmanville, Ontario(Just 45 minutes outside of Toronto). The seminar will be on the same kicking techniques that made Mr. Wallace Undefeated World Champion in Full Contact and win over 250 first place trophies in Point Competition. For more info feel free to e-mail me at videoman@idirect.com. Sincerely Yours, Adam W.Gibson ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 02:22:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: loyalty Thank you Master Timmerman. I did not mean to put "Master Pelligrini out to dry." There are two problems endemic to the North American Korean martial arts community. One, Americans who leave their master instructors to start their own organizations just for personal gain. Two, Korean (and sometimes even American) master instructors who abuse their status and mistreat their disciples. In both situations, it is the (prospective) students that loses. My main point was that although ICHF VP posted that having a background in various organizations was envious for any corporation, he was only partly right (in my opinion). Hypothetically, if I was on the board of trustees for a Fortune 100 self-defense corporation and I was considering Master Pelligrini for a senior executive for CEO, COO position: I would want to call the organizations and speak not only the presidents, but also colleagues of Master Pelligrini before making my decision. The reason: I want to find out what kind of leader and member he was in the organization. If they had a good experience with him, then I'd lean towards hiring him. If they had a bad experience, then I would no longer consider him. Unfortunately, much of the Korean martial arts community is so charged with "fevered" emotions, factionalism, and egoism, it's no wonder that many get disillusioned. It sounds like Master Timmerman has had his fair share of this. So have I. Sincerely, Michael Choi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 02:42:17 EDT Subject: the_dojang: reply to Mr. Rowe's response Michael Rowe writes: Funny, a well respected korean instrutor and historian GM Kimm states that it is common practice for students to have many teachers in their life. And after looking back over your teachers you would choose one that had the most influence on you and your development and call them your teacher. My comment: As a Korean living in Korea, my understanding is that you have one teacher at a time and that as you progress/move on in life, your teacher may guide you to another teacher (probably more knowledgeable). In any case, you would usually obtain your teacher's blessing. It's not so much that you're asking his/her permission and the teacher has an authoritarian relationship with the disciple. Rather there is an intimacy between teacher and student that is akin to father and son. How does a father feel when his son decides to get another father? If what the disciple asks is good, then the teacher will encourage him/her to study under that teacher. Yes, Mr. Rowe, I agree that this does not work in the US. Many Korean masters get high on a ego trip with everyone calling them master or grandmaster and "yes sir"/"no sir" that they manipulate and abuse their students. It's quite shameful. Actually, martial art masters have little standing in Korean society. I am not saying that Master Pelligrini was "disloyal," even though I admit that I gave that impression. Rather I think it was a bit rash for ICHF VP Schmidt to say to have a background in so many organizations without qualifying his statement. I personally know employers who look quite negatively at applicants who don't have stability on their resumes. Sincerely, Michael Choi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: WEE Shin Hoe Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:03:50 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Loyalty Dear Rudy, No disrespect intended. But due to the different in culture and upbringing, sometimes it is very difficult to understand it unless you lived the culture. The same reason why we eat rice and you guys eat bread and why some culture will require women to cover their face and stay at home. It might looked ridiculous from our point of view but might make sense from their point of view. Remember that our culture is the coloured glasses that we wear which will distort everything we saw. In our tradition, when one was accepted into a martial art school. It is similar to being adopted into a family with your teacher as your father. In fact, your own parent will not even raise a hand if you're scolded or beaten by your teacher. You are supposed to obey everything he says. Like the real world, you have loving fathers and then you have abusive fathers. However, changing teacher here is akin to disowning one's father. We do not simply disown your own father and call another guy daddy simply because he treated you nicer. You had to have a very solid reason. Our society do look down on people that kept switching their loyalty. Unfortunately when martial arts were commercialised, integrity, honours and other virtues go straight into the drain. I still remember in my younger days when my school teacher will come to my house to visit me when I am sick and bought text books for the poorer students using their own money. Now they go home straight after the bell rang and complained through their union when they are requested to work over-time and asked for additional benefits. Never heard them fighting on behalf of students welfare. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > From: "Rudy Timmerman" > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:11:26 -0400 > Subject: the_dojang: Loyalty > > A recent discussion: > > Master Pelligrini would have the understood obligation to help build > > WHF and take care of its head, Grandmaster Myung. To just switch over to > > another organization, would be considered disloyal as it shows > > ungratefulness. > > No disrespect intended. The question of loyalty is one that often cannot be > fully understood until one has walked in the shoes of the parties involved. > While I know nothing about the above situation, it does bring back memories. > > For many years, I worked my behind off to support my former GM. I single > handedly put his organization on the map in my area, and I personally > sacrificed many dollars, a wife, my school, and my best years to do what is > considered loyal. The funny thing is, I truly believed in the Korean > loyalty tradition for thirty some years (until sanity returned to me). > > You are a lucky man indeed to have found a "home" where such loyalty is > appreciated, and your actions are what I would have considered (for > countless years) "the thing to do". Unfortunately, not all of us have been > so fortunate and, before GM Pellegrini is hung out to dry, we should perhaps > walk in his shoes. I would be extremely upset if someone who does not know > the entire story suggested that I am ungrateful or disloyal. > > If this sort of loyalty is so important in Korean culture, how is it that > many of the recent (50-60 years) founders (who now push this loyalty issue > to the limit) were able to "found" their organizations. Their very actions > put this whole issue in question. Look at their history, and see just how > many of these "founders" became heirs instead of simply leaving their > organization to form their own money making associations. Yes, the larger > associations bring in millions each year. > > Some of us believe in the "Missoury" philosophy -- show me the loyalty > before casting stones. You are extremely fortunate to have what you have, > and I am happy for you. However, blindly following the foreign philosophy > of a GM who does not follow his own teachings is not loyalty, we call that > stupidity. Perhaps GM Pellegrini had his reasons, why should we cast doubt > on his integrity and loyalty? > Rudy W. Timmerman > National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Warlockery@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:57:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. I'm going to have to disagree with you here, Mark. I believe that power is essential in all techniques. I'm not saying you have to pummel the guy until his eyes bleed, control is still needed. In free-sparring, I put power into every technique I have. My opponent will not be phased at all if I tap him a hundred times in one round. He will be phased, however, if I put a really good sidekick into his middle, even if it's just one. Once your opponent knows that yes, you have the power to do some damage, he'll think twice about putting himself into your range. In point sparring, I can understand letting up a little bit, but I only believe this if it is stated that it is specifically medium or light contact. If the instructor doesn't say anything, then I'm still going to go all-out on the guy. Just because it's point sparring doesn't mean you can't intimidate your opponent. If you throw a bunch of light kicks, you might get a couple points, and you might get them quicker, but you're opponent will also get many points because they aren't afraid to come in to you, because you're throwing all light kicks. If you go into the ring, and get a real good hit on him, you might only get one point instead of many, but you have less of a chance of your opponent getting points, because now they're afraid of getting nailed again. But it's all theoretical anyway, so neither of us are right. This is just my two cents. ..............................iain... ------------------------------ From: "Brad Bezoni" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:30:36 +0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring >From: "Lasich, Mark D." >Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:12:14 -0400 >Subject: the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - >overcoming it?/Donnla. >Okay - I'll risk opening a Pandora's box here: >My line of thinking is that in sparring you want to >be fast and light. >Deliberately focusing on adding POWER to your >techniques can possibly slow >you down and make your techniques easier to spot and >you easier to score on! >You are not breaking boards during sparring, so why >the focus on power? Mr. Lasich, another very interesting topic that you bring up. I have found that a combination of power and speed help to keep the techniques flowing fast and free. By this combination, I mean staying loose and relaxed in the sparring stance, and throwing a kick with the knee, foot, and hip relaxed, then tightening up to the power and correct positioning just inches from the target. Once contact is made, or the kick reaches extension, loosen up the leg once again, and let the repeats and change kicks fly! I'm interested to hear what other list members have to say on this topic! Brad Bezoni 2nd Degree, ATA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 7:10:26 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.