From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #504 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 28 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 504 In this issue: the_dojang: FYI the_dojang: Forms/Step Sparring/Videos & Books the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 the_dojang: Sparring Fear the_dojang: Re: Overcoming fear of sparring. the_dojang: Loyalty the_dojang: Re: loyalty the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #501 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502 the_dojang: fear in sparring - overcoming it the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Chung Do Kwan the_dojang: re:YMCATKD and Kukki tkd the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 910 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lester, Charles (LNG)" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:00:06 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: FYI o Korean language support added to IBM Global Solutions directory http://isource.ibm.com/cgi-bin/goto?on=naa5sv0738 Charles Lester ================== "The most influential person who will talk to you all day is you, so you should be very careful about what you say to you!" Zig Ziglar ================== ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:08:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Forms/Step Sparring/Videos & Books Trying to address 3 different threads here... Forms: The individual movements have specific application for what they wish to accomplish...It is important to teach each form as it was designed to be taught...however...Every Master Instructor and Grand Master Instructor have the option to modify forms to their own interpretation. It has been my experience that those modifications involve a different application of the same technique, but modified for different end results...keeping the basic motion the same as originally designed...I have on occasion experienced modifications that have actually changed the original technique as well as eliminated one or two or adding one or two...I find the addition or subtraction of movements and/or techniques detrimental to the integrity of the art...The forms become so bastardized that no one remembers the correct way of performing them or what the movements represent...Black Belts from the same organization and even the same Do Jang perform the patterns differently...not without argument...I believe it is vitally important to teach the forms, patterns, Poomses, Hyungs, Katas, whatever you wish to cal them or whichever ones you may practice, all the same way to hold the integrity of the art and the purpose of each movement as designed...Once a person becomes a Black Belt, they can perform the movement any way they choose that serves them best as long as the basic technique is the same...in other words, for example, a palm heel strike traditionally and originally performed in a straight line motion to the face may be performed as more of an uppercut under the jaw or chin, but is still a palm heel strike attacking a different target area to achieve a different result...or perhaps a side kick...rather than a high section kick being thrown as a mid section kick...subtle changes with the same principle involved...there is a purpose and meaning to the forms and the movements of which they are comprised...though I often wonder about the Tae Geuks...teach them as they were meant to be taught...once you understand them...perform them with your own interpretation, but teach them all the same as they were originally conceived... 1, 2, 3 Step Sparring: These are suppose to be self-defense techniques...However...Many of them are very awkward and infeasible for use on the street or in a self-defense situation...I promote the use of this type of sparring for timing, focus, development of power and speed...some of them work well for self-defense...some of them don't and I try to make the distinction based upon opponent body reaction as well as the defenders...they are a very important part of instruction and learning and I continue to include them in classes...I allow advanced ranks...Blue Belt and up to create their own step sparring techniques...this allows them to try different techniques and combinations helping them understand what works and what doesn't work... Videos/Books: When I first started TKD, a friend of mine gave me the complete series of books on the Hyungs by GM Jhoon Rhee...I used them to learn the proper sequence of movements as well as stances and technique...I also refer to the videos from the GMs when I need to refresh my memory or check on a specific technique... However, these are just training tools and aides in lieu of having the GM or Master instructor by your side showing you...the only way to learn your forms is from your instructor...the videos and books are just tools to assist you when your instructor is unavailable... My Humble Opinions... The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: NRE98@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:28:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 Re: Sparring I try to use quick, effective techniques in point sparring without full force. In free sparring I try to combine power and quickness. Of course, there are situations which necessitate escalating the contact, matching technique for technique. It depends on the person, the rank, and sometimes attitude. In answer to the question about the fear, if I kick an elbow, I modify my techniques. Some people block very effectively with their elbows, and if you get hit once, it doesn't mean that particular kick won't work on someone else. Try not to let the fear paralyze you and keep you from using anything in your arsenol. Nancy ------------------------------ From: "DREW" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:45:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. Time for my .02 from the last responses. >In free-sparring, I put power into every technique I have. My opponent will >not be phased at all if I tap him a hundred times in one round. He will be >phased, however, if I put a really good sidekick into his middle, even if >it's just one. Once your opponent knows that yes, you have the power to do >some damage, he'll think twice about putting himself into your range. This is a valid point, in that a little bit of heat on a technique will make the contact fairly strong. But I think what most of the folks are refferring to in terms of "power" are the tendancies to tense up and heave the technique. The difference power required to break a couple of boards with a punch is different from the quick pop during sparring. The sparring technique may not have my full body weight behind it, but you can still move your opponent. The difference for a strong technique and a light technique is about three inches for me, a little more for soft contact area's. I think this is what you are referring to. >Mr. Lasich, another very interesting topic that you bring up. I have found >that a combination of power and speed help to keep the techniques flowing >fast and free. By this combination, I mean staying loose and relaxed in >the sparring stance, and throwing a kick with the knee, foot, and hip relaxed, >then tightening up to the power and correct positioning just inches from >the target. Once contact is made, or the kick reaches extension, loosen >up the leg once again, and let the repeats and change kicks fly! I agree with this and think that both of you are referring to the same thing. Yes, it's important to be loose, and speed inherently gives you power. Tensing up and releasing explosive energy like you would during a bench press or squat, does slow you down (I'm not saying weightlifting slows down MA's). You can tell this when the person you are sparring gets frustraited during the round. They move become slower and more deliberate, balance is a bit off from the "power" in their technique. This is really what you want, since you have now mentally beat your opponent, just don't walk into anything! So is power important during sparring? Yes. The same stance, and approach you use to break? No. Could the power used in sparring break a board? Probably, but sparring is training and you want to help your opponent improve, right? So you would be a good responsable partner and give your opponent a good whack or two and lighthen up and coach them a bit at the end of the round by telling them where they were open. Personally I like to spar at the contact level of my opponent, that varies with rank, age, gender, and skill. Some folks I barely touch (like my wife), some folks a little stronger (mid teens, older guys), and some of us just flat bruse each other up good. Oh yea, if you tend to get pummeled every time you spar this one guy, but find his girlfriend/spouse is easy picken's, there is a reason. Some of the teanage guys just don't figure this out even after a good case of bruised ribs. :^) To Donnla, if you tell the person you're about to spar to take it easy, they should. Make it a point to keep your eyes open at all times! Most people that have a fear of sparring tend to close their eyes when someone attacks, this is not good. Ask your partner to coach you, tell you where your open, what techniques need work, how you could better react.... Regards, Andrew 1st Degree ATA ------------------------------ From: "Carl W" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:14:23 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 >From: Warlockery@aol.com >Subject: the_dojang: Re: RE: fear in sparring - overcoming it?/Donnla. > >From: "Brad Bezoni" >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring > >From: "Lasich, Mark D." >Subject: the_dojang: RE: fear in sparring - >overcoming it?/Donnla. Thank you Donna for starting this thread. As well, thanks to the above gentlemen for the discussion. I had a very similar discussion with my instructor on this very theme just last night. I'm only going into my 2nd year of training and last year, I had to miss the local tournament due to knee surgery (and wasn't able to make any out-of-town tourneys). However, I did attend the local tournament to cheer on my daughter and made a point of watching what would have been my sparring competition had I been playing. Frankly, they scared the h*.* out of me! I would have been in an over 40, yellow belt (8th gup) division, and easily the smallest person in the contest. Watching my would-be opponents reminded me a laughable, yet punishing, streetfight - total clumsiness (due to lack of technique), attempts to land the "big one", and in-close stumbling... er, I mean, fighting. Realizing that my own sparring style is toe-to-toe, I would have been clobbered over and over again by these bigger, taller, old guys! :-) Another tournament is coming up in October and, realizing my disadvantages, I want to start getting ready. Anyways, my instructor talked a bit about in-close vs "get in, strike, and get out" strategies, as well as scoring points while keeping your opponent wary of you, much like the discussion here on the DD. At the end of the discussion, my instructor said with a smile "and I'll make sure that you know how to take a hit too!" Gulp!!! Carl W. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:14:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Sparring Fear Donnla... My Instructors have taught me from day 1 to lean back in my kicks...primarily because I'm short...but regardless of height...leaning back, as you said, extends your kick and takes theoretically "out of range" of your opponent...if you think that leaning back reduces your power...you are very much mistaken...at first, you may feel this way because it is new and not natural to you...keep practicing and once you get accustomed to leaning back, you will find that you will be able to deliver the power you desire...the key to generating the desired power is relaxing and using the torque of your upper body in coordination with your hips to create the momentum and thrust needed for the power you desire...I have practiced kicks with leaning back and not leaning back and find I generate more power leaning back and executing a technically correct traditional kick than I do by not leaning back...keep practicing...you will get better and your power will increase...remember....RELAX! The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: d.d.parker@juno.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:36:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Overcoming fear of sparring. I know I've mentioned this before, and I don't want to be redundant, but this technique does work. To overcome a fear of sparring or some aspect of it, start out slow with minimal contact. Over time (weeks, not days), speed up and make harder contact. Let the process work itself naturally and you'll work through your fears. Also, you might want to practice taking controlled hits from an opponent in your sparring gear. Again, start out with light strikes and gradually increase the amount of contact. Cheers, Daniel ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:17:28 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Loyalty Greetings Masters ?? Wee and Choi: Thank you both for your comments regarding loyalty and Korean culture, I truly appreciate any lessons I can learn regarding martial arts. Mr. Choi: I am so glad to hear that you did not intend to damage the reputation of GM Pellegrini. Your eloquent letter no doubt helps us "non Orientals" better understand the ramifications of loyalty. You are so right when it comes to having a resume with too many changes of direction; in fact, it is one of the things I carefully scrutinize myself when a student applies for membership in my school or association. Looking for stability in an employee (or student) is not something we non-Orientals simply ignore. I merely wanted to point out, as you admit yourself, that there are instances where Grandmasters or Instructors no longer earn the right to a student's continued loyalty. Your first post may have allowed readers to form opinions about the integrity of a GM without having the benefit of knowing the full story. While most veteran martial artists would readily understand your point and require no clarification, this list is read by countless beginners who have not had the benefit of personal experience with this issue. We would not want them to get a one-sided view, would we? Mr. Wee: There may be a number of reasons why someone needs to find another Instructor. For instance, my personal reason for having to initially change Instructors was relocation. When a Master moves away, the students are often left to fend for themselves. It may be too expensive to travel to see the Master, or simply too time consuming. In either case, the "child" is left abandoned regardless of who did the relocating. GM Myung and his students must have experienced this first hand when he moved out West. Having practically lived on the doorstep of my now deceased first Korean Master for many years (until he moved), I managed to glean a considerable amount of insight in Korean culture. To be sure, I just touched the surface; however, we are now talking about North-America. Here, when a father abandons his child for whatever reason, we would be glad to see that child find a new family to adopt him. In our culture it IS possible for a father (or father figure) to lose the right to respect. Incidentally, my first Korean Master arranged for me to study with my second Korean GM. Leaving my second Korean GM was simply due to a gradual loss of respect. In our society, loyalty and respect must be carefully nurtured. It is never expected to be one sided, and woe the Master (regardless of race) who forgets this important lesson. No matter how much such a Master has to teach, North-Americans won't stay with a Master who does not return the respect he demands for himself. Believe it or not, many of us truly love the martial arts creeds we were taught, and we perpetuate this tradition to the best of our ability. We just don't take kindly to arrogance. Martial artists who have been around for a while have all seen or heard horror stories about loyalty. Perhaps GM Pellegrini has one of his own, and I merely wanted to point this out before we damage his reputation. Personally, I hold loyalty and respect very dear, and this is probably why I am so passionate about it. However, some of the Korean Masters I know do not live up to the standards they themselves taught me. I sincerely hope that frank discussions such as these will preserve what little there is left of some of the most important aspects of martial arts training -- respect and loyalty. It will take a serious effort by disciples of both cultures to preserve it for our students' benefit. Dealing with cultural differences will always be an integral part of martial art studies, and Korean Masters must be just as sensitive about cultural differences regarding loyalty and respect as we non-Orientals must be. Thanks again for the insight you both gave me (and other readers). Respectfully, Rudy W. Timmerman National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:25:20 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: loyalty My (admittedly rambling) .02 on this subject. I think it should be noted that loyalty must flow both ways in a student-teacher relationship in order for the relationship to be a strong one. As the student has certain responsibilities to the teacher, the teacher has certain responsibilities to the student he must uphold, ones that should go beyond the dojang. The teacher must set the standards for the relationship. Those standards must be solid and uniform for all students, shifting only to accommodate extraordinary situations. What are some of these standards? First and foremost, the teacher must know what he teaches. In this day of so-called "McDojangs," people claiming to be Masters ooze out of the woodwork, with neither the skills or the background to back up the claim. A true teacher must not only know the techniques, he must be able to perform and adopt the technique to the situation at hand. An example from my own background: In the school I attended, we practiced Yudo throws on a regular basis. Because of my physical shape, and an unconscious tendency to squat slightly at the onset of the throw, almost everyone in the class had a difficult time throwing me. But the teacher didn't -- He knew the techniques well enough to modify the technique to not only account for my natural low center of gravity, but to use my knee-jerk squat reaction to assist him in the throw. That depth of knowledge gives the teacher an understanding of the art that shows in his teaching. Besides the knowledge, the teacher must be willing to teach. Sounds simple, doesn't it? Some so-called "masters" out there don't bother teaching -- it's left to the assistant instructors while the "Master" sits back and watch. By teaching, the teacher shows his knowledge and experience and allows him to connect with the students on a more personal level. Teachers who keep their distance are not teachers; they are figureheads. In the same vein, the teacher must show a willingness to teach everything they know, depending on the experience of the student. Teachers who don't teach anything beyond the basic requirements for the next belt level are not very good teachers. It gives the impression that the teacher is "holding" something back. Giving a lower belt a glimpse of higher belt techniques not only fuels the lower belt with a desire to continue, it tells the student that the teacher trust them with the knowledge. And that's the key word with the teacher-student relationship: trust. The student trusts the teacher to show and explain the techniques of the Art, to be a fair and honorable in his dealings with the student, and to give the student the support and encouragement to continue. The teacher trusts the student to be aware of the standards the instructor sets and live up to them. Sometimes, people break away from martial arts organization because they believe that this loyalty to the teacher has been broken by the teacher. This could be over matters inside or outside the dojang. In either case, these people decide the breech of this loyalty -- this trust -- is too great to be healed. Loyalty is a two-way street: both sides must give and receive this trust in order for such a relationship to work. If it is one-way, it will not last.... Craig ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:06:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #501 In a message dated 7/27/00 12:37:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Any suggestions on how to overcome this mental block? > Donnla. I will share the wisdom that my master passed along to me 23 years ago when I complained about hurting my toes, etc. "If you break [your toes] 500 or 1000 times, it won't hurt anymore." As much as I did not like this "advice," I have found it to be fairly accurate. SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:11:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502 In a message dated 7/27/00 9:06:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > There are many guidelines as to curriculum in the textbook, however the > only real requirement is to have a kukkiwon certified instructor recommend > you. In my experience this is essentially true. SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:14:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #502 In a message dated 7/27/00 9:06:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > I think that both methods are valid, but may not fit into every system out > there. I wonder if there are any other methods of introducing technical material besides these two, or a combination thereof? SESilz ------------------------------ From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:25:09 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: fear in sparring - overcoming it Ms. Gearailt, Work with a partner who holds protection (bag, Pad, whatever) against their body and moves around at half speed. Throw light but very focused technique "popping" the protection until you are able to deliver the kicks with out your body being in the "lean back" position. Continue this type of training until you have over come the negative conditioning obtained from the injuries you received as a beginner. If required you can have the partner try half speed blocking (padded arms) until your timing and distance are improved to the point you are able to get your kicks in with out the foot damage. Keep training, you can improve your timing and distance to the point you are not hurting yourself. Been there, done that. Jim Floyd - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:24:36 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: fear in sparring - overcoming it? question regarding sparring - My instructor has pointed out to me that I lean back when sparring, thus removing all the power my kicks might have. It seems I do this instinctively. Not so much because I'm worried about getting hit, but whenever I do manage to throw a strong kick my toes inevitably clash with knee/forearm/something else hard and unyielding and it HURTS. I have had this problem of automatically drawing back and not putting any power into my kicks since I did something nasty to my toes within a few months of beginning training due to over-enthusiasm and a total lack of control on my part. Any suggestions on how to overcome this mental block? Donnla. - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:37:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 In a message dated 7/28/00 6:53:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > As a Korean living in Korea, my understanding is that you have one teacher > at a time and that as you progress/move on in life, your teacher may guide > you to another teacher (probably more knowledgeable). In any case, you would > > usually obtain your teacher's blessing. It's not so much that you're asking > his/her permission and the teacher has an authoritarian relationship with > the disciple. Rather there is an intimacy between teacher and student that > is akin to father and son. How does a father feel when his son decides to > get another father? If what the disciple asks is good, then the teacher will > > encourage him/her to study under that teacher. Even though I am an American born and raised in the US, I still feel as Mr. Choi does about this issue. SESilz ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:31:28 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Chung Do Kwan I have seen several pople refer to hapkido chung do kwan. I have been unable to locate anything on this kwan. could you refer me to some information? Also, it is my understanding that Master Whalen style is chun ki kwan not chung do. Could anyone provide me some information on this? frank ------------------------------ From: Migukyong@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:33:58 EDT Subject: the_dojang: re:YMCATKD and Kukki tkd I spoke to a Chung Do Kwanjang today in refernece to your post about kukki-tkd being older tkd that sport. he indicated that kukki-tkd generally refers to what is commonly held as sport tkd. He indicated this name comes from the fact that olympic athletes are typically kukkiwon certified. frank ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:27:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #503 In a message dated 7/28/00 9:54:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << colleagues of Master Pelligrini before making my decision. The reason: I want to find out what kind of leader and member he was in the organization. If they had a good experience with him >> Anyone have good or bad experience? ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:31:40 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #504 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.