From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #507 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 31 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 507 In this issue: the_dojang: Forms the_dojang: Hyungs the_dojang: Hapkido Chundokwan the_dojang: Hapkido Kwans the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 910 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:00:54 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Forms Master Cyrus writes: > Your observations are very insightfull. I will, however, add a few more > observations. In general, in many arts, there appear to be no connection > between the many individual skills of the art and the "forms". They appear to > be totally separate practices only to be learned and performed just for the > sake of doing them. Thank you Master Cyrus for your additional comments. Although I try my best to "get it all in one post", I always manage to omit something. Your additional comments are right on, and they very much mirror the way I personally look at forms. The odd thing is that my first Korean Grandmaster, Pak In Shyuk, did not emphasize (or even enjoy) hyung. In addition, I felt like a Bull Moose in a China Shop doing forms myself (my size does not help); however, I did come to appreciate the value of Hyung. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan - C. Richards" Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:12:16 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Hyungs "Ryan Shroyer" wrote: Just to blurt out my two cents on this thread: I really feel it's a VERY bad idea to learn patterns in advance of your rank or before proper instruction for two reasons. 1.) No resource -- whether it be a book, video, CD or web site -- can show you every intricacy of a pattern that you should (in theory) know before moving along to the next level. No resource even comes close to giving you what the combined effort of master instructors and dedicated fellow students contribute to your knowledge of a pattern. 2.) (And this is the biggest, by far.) Learning a pattern in advance detracts from your ability to perfect your current form, no matter how well you think you know it. This might seem like common sense, but let me expand that statement a bit. I firmly believe that you should practice a form at least 300 times before being considered for a test. (If you go to class three times a week for six months, practicing once every class, that's only 78 times!) Maybe this is being too difficult, but I personally don't believe so. This was the standard set by my first instructors. And, since leaving them, I have seen far too many black belts (of all levels) at other schools stumble over movements or simply forget entire sections of patterns that they learned in their gup ranks. To me (and maybe I'm alone here, but) this is absolutely appalling! It goes against everything a black belt should be (expert, dedicated practitioner, teacher, role model). Bravo, In Jhoon Rhee's 1970's book Chonji, he refers to 300 repetitions of a hyung as minimum standard for rank advancement. Many affirm that Funakoshi Sensei made students practice the Pyung Ahns and Naihanchi Hyungs for three years before teaching any of the advanced hyungs (Bassai, Chinto, etc.). I'm paraphrasing a former instructor but... The first 100 repetitions you begin to learn the motions of the hyung After 1,000 repetitions you begin to understand the hyung After 10,000 repetitions, the observer can see the (imaginary) opponent On a personal note, I have been working on Sei Shan (a 5th Dan requirement in TSD) for about a year now which I learned from a combination of a book and two video sources, and previous masters demonstrations. I sent it to a 5th Dan on video, and he found many corrections in timing and other nuances....I was taught Ro Hai more than a year before my Sam Dan exam, and I'm still not sure which of 3 versions I'll be performing on my Sah Dan Exam. Learning early can lead to later problems, especially below the instructor level. Once the time in grade starts spacing out, you will find many 4th and 5th Dan's who have trained in all the rquirements of their system. This does not mean they claim to be 9th Dan Grandmasters, but have committed their lives to preserving that particular art, and have many years to refine what they have preserved before it is lost. Just one man's ramblings.. Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:59:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Chundokwan In reply to Mr. Frank's (?) post on "Hapkido Chung Do Kwan." No, I am not referring to Hapkido Chung Do Kwan (Blue Way House). Rather, I am referring to CHUN do Kwan (Heaven Way House) or in Chinese, Tien Tao Kwoon. (No "g" after the chun.) The headquarters is in Yunshinae, Seoul, and it is a member of the Korea Hapkido Federation, under Oh Se-lim. Sincerely, Mike ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:21:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Kwans Master Harold Whalen is the head of the Moo-Ye-Kwan. The Korea Hapkido Association created this kwan and appointed Master Whalen as the head. His lineage is as follows. Master Whalen learned Hapkido from Won, Kil-soo, a certified master in Hapkido CHUN DO Kwan (not Chung Do Kwan, not Chun Ki Kwan, not Chung Ki Kwan). Master Won studied under Master Yu, Chun-hee who is the head of the Hapkido CHUN DO Kwan. Sincerely, Michael Choi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 7:27:23 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #507 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.