From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #516 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 3 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 516 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: SESilz story the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #515 the_dojang: Re: "Billy?" the_dojang: Re: Mas Oyama Story the_dojang: Poom vs Dan the_dojang: Re: Follow ups the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #514 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 910 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Martin Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:39:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: SESilz story > BTW this reminded me of a story which has become somewhat famous in the >WTF TKD community about a similar match from a similar period - the early >'60s. > As many of us know, Master "Mas Oyama" was born "Mr. Choi" in Korea and >had learned a Korean fighting system before immigrating to Japan and adopting >his new name and founding his kyokashinkai (spelling?) karate system. > Anyhow, in early 1960s Mr. Oyama issued a challenge to the newly formed >Korean Taekwondo Association to a team match against his boys in Japan. > Korea selected a team of 5 players from different weight categories and, >under the leadership of then JiDoKwan President, now WTF Vice President, and >always serious tough guy, Chong Woo Lee, and sent them off to Japan. > The format of the competition was to contain both breaking and sparring, >with breaking taking place first. Korea lost the coin toss and had to send >their man up to break first. > Master Lee picked the smallest and lightest member of his team, Dong Keun >Park (now an active Grandmaster in Jersey City, NJ) to go first. > Now there was a palate of roofing tiles in the room from which the >competitors were to select their breaking materials. Mr. Park just casually >walked over to the pile, but instead of selecting a few pieces, he just >smashed the entire stack with a punch. > The Japanese fighters huddled-up with Mr. Oyama and after a very short >conference, announced they had nothing to go against the likes of what they >just saw, and bowed-out of the remainder of the event. > I guess you could say that entire team match ended with the first punch. >SESilz Which just goes to prove Gen. Choi's philosophy: one kick or one punch to finish your opponent! Taekwon Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:38:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #515 Stickfighter27@cs.com wrote: Why am I asking? Well he my Ex instructor has been promoting kids at the early age of 11 and sometimes earlier to Black belt and giving them the Dan rank title. He actually has one student who is 15 yrs old and a 4th Dan a Master in TKD at 15 yrs old. I have a problem with this one due to this "child" has no idea what life is really about at such an early age. I would have a problem with it too, but we're not that teacher, are we? You can name yourself the 80th degree Royal Kung-Fu Hibiscus Flower Grandmaster anytime you feel like it, but all that is really important is your training and your personality. The name doesn't mean a thing. Don't fret about it. I'm from an organization where the 1st kup students wear a "poom" belt as a "temporary black belt." It doesn't seem proper to me, but it doesn't change those performers into little kids any more than a 4th dan turns a 15 year old into someone from whom you want to learn. Don't sweat the small stuff. Keep on training, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Jesse Segovia Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:55:03 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: "Billy?" SESilz wrote: > As many of us know, Master "Mas Oyama" was born "Mr. Choi" in Korea and > had learned a Korean fighting system before immigrating to Japan and adopting > his new name and founding his kyokashinkai (spelling?) karate system. I knew Mr. Oyama was Korean, but I didn't know he studied a Korean fighting art before emigrating to Japan. What art did he study and how far did he go? Jesse ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:17:03 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mas Oyama Story In a message dated 8/3/00 8:24:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The Japanese fighters huddled-up with Mr. Oyama and after a very short conference, announced they had nothing to go against the likes of what they just saw, and bowed-out of the remainder of the event. I guess you could say that entire team match ended with the first punch. >> I have never heard of this or seen it in black or white anywhere. Could you please tell me where you got this information? I would like to research this as I am studying Mas Oyama right now and haven't run across this story before. Thank you. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:34:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Poom vs Dan Interesting Subject. What is the difference between a 1st Dan and a 1st Poom? I have watched and I can personally say other than the fact that the 1st Dan is over 16 there is absolutly nothing different. There was some comment about a 11 year old not knowing what life was about yet. Well, that depends. I doubt that there are alot of 11 year olds that have a clue but there are many in the world today that know what life is about - though they may not be ready to take on the world yet. I have seen 8 year olds that have things to teach 48 year olds. I have also seen snot nosed punks that have little redeeming value. Recently the Kukkiwon allowded for the 4th Poom Rank. Are they a master? Not yet but soon will be. If we take a hypothetical look at a student that starts at age 5. Age 5 - White Belt Age 8 - 1st Poom Age 9 - 2nd Poom Age 11 - 3rd Poom Age 14 - 4th Poom Age 18 - 5th Dan 4th Poom holders are not masters but they soon will be since the next test will place them as 5th Dan. Now depending on their instructor most often the 1st and 2nd Poom holders will not be held to high emotional standards. However many that reach the rank of 3rd of 4th Poom are well on their way to being ready. I have seen child of Israel and Palastine know about life and death by the time they are 14 and know much about what is real and what is not. Would I wish that life on my children here in the US? (and yes I have 5 of my own) No! But they are capable of understanding if we Americans would quit coddling our children. We can only protect our children for so long and then they must do it themselves. Have we prepared them for that or not? Is a 4th Poom ready for the mantal of Master? IMHO no but they will soon be ready as long as we instructors prepare them and instruct them in the way. Otherwise they will be jokes that once again make the paper worthless and the ideal of black belt looked down upon. Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: Warlockery@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:02:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Follow ups > For some reason, > when students begin to learn ho sin sool they find it dificult (at times) > making the transition to working with a partner. At my Dojang, the first time we practice a self-defense technique, it's against a partner. There's just no way a GUP student can perform a "ho sin sool" correctly against an imaginary opponent unless they've done it against a real person dozens of times. I think teaching them against a person the first time is the only way to have it taught to me, so that I don't perform the technique improperly and have to train myself to do it correctly all over again. ..............................iain... ------------------------------ From: Warlockery@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:21:13 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #514 About little kids becoming high-ranked black belts. In some cases this is a bad thing, like if they get full of themselves, and go around everywhere they go holding their belt, and calling themselves whatever degree they are. But there are those who do just have the knack of it, and deserve to be promoted ASAP, so that they get the chance to train with the appropriate people. But if you truly doubt his personal ability to hold the rank, I say ask him to spar you, or go to a class with him. Either of these activities will allow you to truly see whether or not he is truly deserving of his rank. ..............................iain... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:16:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #516 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.