From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #519 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 4 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 519 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: One Kick One Punch the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 the_dojang: Re: rank the_dojang: Rank vs Age the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 the_dojang: Master Whalen the_dojang: Re: Name calling the_dojang: Re: Han Moo Kwan Founder the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 the_dojang: Re: Follow Ups the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 910 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Martin Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:09:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: One Kick One Punch I didn't mean to imply that "One Kick One Punch" was "created" by Gen. Choi. It is deffiently a concept that he has embraced very closely and tried to pass on to his students. I suspect that the concept is as old as unarmed combat. BTW: I believe Choi Hong Hi was president of the KTA when the Japan event occured. Regards Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:05:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 in reply to: "Which just goes to prove Gen. Choi's philosophy: one kick or one punch to finish your opponent!" Jeremy wrote: I believe it was Gichin Funakoshi who began that philosophy and Gen. Choi carried it on. I'm not sure if Funakoshi originated the idea, but it certainly is found in Shotokan Karate and is undoubtedly where Gen. Choi got it from. It is "ikken hissatsu" (kill with one blow) in Japanese. Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Tony Pfeiffer" Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:46:46 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: rank gulp - shudder, well here I come out of lurk mode my very first day on the list. My background was varied until I finally settled in one place -- Al Garza's American Karate Club (now Al Garza's Martial Arts), Dickinson, Tx. (now League City, Tx.) -- for long enough to "belt." It was (is) basically a Jhoon Rhee system school(with FMA and lots of other opportunities thrown in). I got no formal (belt promotion) recognition for my prior experience or for my tournament performance (1988 -- 6th in Tx. intermediate division, "executive sparring;" 7th kata -- AOK rankings). It was minimum five years to black belt, period -- based on at least 3X weekly training and vague character (at least for adults, for kids it was based on report card) expectations. After black belt, it was 2 years minimum to 2nd degree, 3 years after 2nd to third degree, 4yrs. after 3rd to 4th, and so on. Ranked kids, in my judgement, were deserving whatever your criteria. Under the system, however, you had no young "grandmasters". Theoretically, one could achieve that status at 30 or so but I know of nobody who did. IMHO, it boils down to: one person's rating could be another person's belly laugh and much depends on the person as well as the structure of the hierarchy that keeps one motivated and moving. Playing's the thing. Back to lurking ...... ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:38:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Rank vs Age The conflict and opinions of rank have been around since people became competitive with each other and the conflicts and opinions will continue till long after any of us are around...each organization has its set of rules and standards...each Dojang has it set of rules and standards...each Instructor has their set of rules and standards...and each Martial artist has their own personal set of rules and standards...none of this is ever going to change regardless of the discussion, the opinions, the conflicts, or the politics...that's the way it is... There are may young children who are very talented and some who are exceptional in the martial arts...promote them for their talents...promote them for their abilities...don't promote them because they have been at a certain rank for the correct number of years...children and adults alike need to live up to their rank before thinking about the next rank...I believe in Poom ranks...I also believe (with exception in the rare cases) that Poom rank should be held to 4th Poom until the age of 16...maybe even 18, depending upon each individual case...when Dan rank can be granted (in accordance with most organizations)...Master rank to children should be held (with the very rare exception of GM Dan Rogers' son who is indeed an exception to the norm)...If a child can demonstrate and prove to live up to the Master rank, they should have the title...It is so very, very rare that anyone so young let alone in their 20s or 30s lives up to a Master rank...there are a lot of them out there...but, IMHO, very undeserving... Master rank is not about the number of years in the martial arts...it is not about the ability to win gold medals in competition...it is not about being very adept technique wise...it is not about the belt around your waist...IMVHO...Master rank is about having the maturity in the arts to not only demonstrate and apply the knowledge as well as teach it, as much as it is understanding the knowledge and application and being able to explain the basis of that knowledge and application...not only demonstrating the essence of martial arts but living it so that your expertise, your knowledge, and your wisdom come from your mind and heart and not your waist...Master rank is not just a title...it is who you are...it is what you are...it is what you are perceived to be...it is what you portray to others...Master of an art and life long endeavor... The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: Tkdalpha@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:07:49 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 In a message dated 8/4/00 9:42:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Folks, time to take the tkd_net chat off line to private email. Ok? >>>>>>>>>>> As I posted before. Does tkd_net really exist? Why is there only person talking bad about that list? I tried the direction posted here and it does not work. I am interested in anything TKD. Ted ------------------------------ From: "Tomlinson, Michael E." Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:18:26 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Master Whalen The questionable posts were not from the TKD net list. They were actually from a board that I hadn't seen before. Thanks for calling me a Master but I am very far from that. I am a lowly 4th Dan in Hapkido and basically the only thing I have mastered is fast food!!! Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 11:18:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Name calling While I am not for sensoring any comments here. (not my list or my place to do so) Let's please refrain from insulting other people or lists in general. It is okay to say, "I had a bad experiecne there and choose to partake in this list," but we should refrain from calling names like "peabrained" etc. What you want to call people in private, not my business. But this is an open forum. By calling names, it makes it easy for others to say, "Look, the DD list is bad mouthing us again, calling our list **** and our people ****" This just makes the whole community look bad. This list has some great martial artists and people, lets focus on the positive. No name calling, especially since there are people on tkd-net that are also good martial artists and people. It's sad that there is the feud between a few people, but lets not make it worse by calling names. Off my soapbox now, back to martial arts! Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:10:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Han Moo Kwan Founder In a message dated 8/4/00 6:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << directly under Grandmaster Kyo Yoon Lee, who is the founder of Han Moo Kwan. >> He is the founder of Han Moo Kwan? I studied TKD ... Han Moo Kwan and I was never told of this fact. I will be sure and ask GrandMaster Bai about this the next time I see him. Thanks. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:15:07 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 In a message dated 8/4/00 6:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am studying Mas Oyama right now and haven't run across this story before. > Naturally, I doubt Mr. Oyama would have done much to spread this story.... Actually, I heard if from several well-respected taekwondo masters from that era. Also, one of America's taekwondo leaders and former Olympian, while on a long plane ride back from Korea, had occasion to ask Mr. Park directly about whether or not this story was true. Mr. Park confirmed the story as I recounted it for you. I also heard it repeated by Mr. Park's son. >> Ok, Thank you ... this is just word of mouth then? Nothing has been recorded of this or put down in any record or anything. That's what I wanted to know. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:23:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #518 In a message dated 8/4/00 6:42:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Naturally, I doubt Mr. Oyama would have done much to spread this story.... >> SESilz, Also, what Korean style of MA did Mas Oyama study before going to Japan and start his own style of karate ... Kyokushin? I believe you left that part out ... and I was just curious as to what style it was. Thanks. Illona ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:45:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Follow Ups My fifteen cents on the subject, and it also relates to the short discussion of forms that occurred earlier. I was reading a martial arts webpage in the recent past (It may have been Martial Arts Wired, but don't quote me on that), and someone had written a short article on the subject of martial arts. His main point was that we, as a group, train, practice and teach martial ARTS, not martial sciences. While the basic techniques are based on scientific principles, how we use these techniques is the art part. In his article, the author talks about how in martial science, a technique will always work against any opponent, anywhere, anytime. We all know that will not happen. The situation is never the same twice, no two opponents are exactly the same, and no two martial artists are exactly the same. That is where the 'art' part comes in. Each system has their own way of handling similar attacks. One of the MA magazines use to have a 'comparative style' section in which four well-know martial artists would show a defense from their own system against a common attack. There was always a wide variety of techniques, from simple and straightforward to complex and intricate. But there were common, basic elements in each defense -- block/avoidance and counters that stopped the attacker completely. There is no 'ultimate technique' out there -- my master once told me, 'There is always a counter to a technique, and a counter to the counter.' So, good instructors not only teach the techniques, but how to counter them. Another factor in the 'artist' part of the equation is the individual themselves. Each person, because of mental and physical make-up, have their own preferences in techniques. A good martial artist that has learned a good MA system will use and adjust those techniques depending on the situation, opponent and other factors. The techniques are simple the material, it is up to the artist to put them together into a cohesive whole. This individuality carries over into forms. A person with an aggressive mindset might interpret a move in a form as a strike, while someone with a more passive outlook would see the same technique as a block. Now, that doesn't mean that one person is right and the other one wrong -- either interpretation is valid under the right circumstances. It up to the instructor to teach the full range of uses for each technique, and it is up to the student to take that knowledge and assimilate to suit their own needs. Martial arts is not a static block of rock that is exactly the same as the other chunks of rock around it. Instead, it is a river, flowing and adjusting itself to the surrounding environment. We each chart our own river, based on many things, but we strive to arrive at the same destination. Craig ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:16:15 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #519 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.