From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #553 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 18 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 553 In this issue: the_dojang: Sport TKD calendar the_dojang: Re: Sip P'al Gi the_dojang: Re: knife attack the_dojang: Various the_dojang: First Amendment the_dojang: Re: Hitman book case the_dojang: Moye Tongji and 18 weapons Re: the_dojang: Re: Hitman book case Re: the_dojang: Moye Tongji and 18 weapons the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 985 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:27:44 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Sport TKD calendar The_Dojang's calendar of Sport Taekwondo Events August 18, 2000 Dates and locations subject to change. 2000 Camarillo Mayor's Cup Aug 19 Oxnard, California 23th Collegiate League Match Aug 24-26 Kukkiwon, Seoul, Korea Korea Taekwondo Champs Aug 26 Santa Clara, California 27th Olympic Games Sep 15-Oct 1 Sydney, Australia 2000 Western Open Sep 16 San Bernardino, California World Gold Cup TKD Champs Sep 16 Sacramento, California Mountain States Taekwondo Sep 24 Colorado Spgs, Colorado Olympic Games TKD event Sep 27-30 Sydney, Australia Southeast Asian Champs Oct Jakarta, Indonesia Patagonia Open Oct 8 Bariloche, Argentina AAU TKD Friendship Tournament Oct 14 Daly City, California AAU TKD Team Trials Oct 20-21 Houston, Texas 8th California Open Taekwondo Oct 21 Los Angeles, California 12th World Military TKD Champ Oct 21-29 Seoul, Korea 6th African TKD (3rd Women) Champs Zimbabwe Silicon Valley Open Oct 28 San Jose, California 25th National Collegiate TKD Nov 3-4 Ames, Iowa Brussels 2000 Open Nov 3-5 Brussels, Belgium German Open Poomse Nov 4 Germany 13th European Senior TKD Champs Athens, Greece Best TKD Player in 2000 tourny Nov 7-10 Kukkiwon, Seoul, Korea Santa Claus Open Nov 11 Helsinki, Finland Internation Sachsen-Anhalt Cup Nov 11-12 Wolmirstedt, Germany 3rd World Junior Champs Nov 15-18 Killarney, Ireland Croatian Open Nov 18-19 Zagreb, Croatia 12th Pan American TKD Champs Dec 7-10 San Jose, Puerto Rico International Boeskooltournament Dec 9 Oldenzaal, Netherlands 2001 10th US Open Feb 28-Mar 4 Las Vegas, Nevada 3rd East Asian Games May 19-27 Osaka, Japan World Cup TKD Champs May 25-27 HoChiMinh City, Vietnam European Juniors TKD Champs April 7 Spain Belgian Open April 21-23 Belgium Eurocup for teams June Moscow, Russia 4th International Cheong Open July 11-19 Chung Ju, Korea WTF General Assembly & Executive Sept Council meeting Cheju City, Korea 15th World TKD Champs & 8th Women's World TKD Champs mid Sept Cheju City, Korea European Technical Champs Oct 6-7 Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany 7th Central American Games Nov 30-Dec 3 Guatemala City, Guatemala 2002 7th South American Games April 4-14 Cordoba, Argentina Eurocup for teams May Spain 14th European Senior TKD Champs May 2-5 Ankara, Turkey 7th World Univ TKD Champs June 11-16 Berkeley, California 14th Asian Games Sept 29-Oct 14 Pusan, Korea 2003 Europan Junior TKD Champs May Athens, Greece 14th Pan American Games Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep 22nd Southeast Asian Games Oct HoChiMinh City, Vietnam 2004 European Senior TKD Champs May 4-9 Lillehammer, Norway ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:26:15 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sip P'al Gi Dear Andrew, You are right. Individual units in Chinese Imperial Army developed different methods and tactics. However, all new recruits will be trained in the use of the 18 standard weapons which included bow, broad-sword, spear, sword etc. Depending on their martial trainer's background, the way they used the weapons will be different. However, in General Ch'i Chi-kuang's case. Instead of relying on regular army, he has to train the fishermen and common peasants so that they will be able to defend themselves against the Japanese. Most of this people has no martial art background, thus the need for him to produce training manuals which among other contained the basic forms/patterns for each of the weapons. I believe that these basic forms were included in the Muye Tobo Tongji. I do not know much about Sip P'al Gi, but I have a feeling that the name of the art is refering to the techniques of 18 standard weapons as used in the Ming Imperial Army. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > Thank you for your interesting comments. I would like to ask a few more > questions which I hope you will have some answers for. > > I can agree with what you wrote except that the Muye Tobo Tongji derives > from the Ming period Chi-hsiao hsin-shu (Jixiao Xinshu). My > understanding of the Ming military is weak but it seems to have been > organised similarly to European armies where the general was expected to > fund the soldiers under his command. This meant that individual units > developed different tactics and methods (and this is still true of the > British army today!). The tactics developed by Ch'i Chi-kuang were > fairly successful against Japanese(sic) pirates and the Jurchin. > However, I do not know that his tactics were ever adopted by the > Imperial Army. > > Enlightenment is requested :-) > > Andrew ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:05:08 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: knife attack In a message dated 8/17/00 9:44:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << the opponent is face on, should the tactic be to try and get inside the knife-arc and attack the opponent's body? Stepping in, grabbing the knife arm on the way in, turning and executing a classic hip throw (as in Judo) comes to mind as an effective technique except I'm no good at hip throws :-(. >> Practice! Practice! Practice! ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:27:27 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Various Dear Michael, What the Shaolin Temple practising now is Wushu, not the original techniques. And the Shaolin Temple has degraded into a tourist trap. After the Cultural Revolution, not much of the original monks survived. The last Abbot of Shaolin Temple died (I think) some time in the 60s. I do remembered seeing one black and white photo of his demonstrating his Kung Fu. In this photo, there was one old monk turned upside down supporting himself with only one index finger! Judging from the size of his fingers, I don't think there was any camera trick. Even my late-grandpa claimed that he learned his Kung Fu from Fukkien Shaolin Temple. From what I can remember (he passed away when I was 10), the Kung Fu he practised is closer to Kuntao than the Wushu as we known today. But then, he is from the Southern Shaolin which uses a lot of hand techniques and low kicks. According to him, when their parents sent them there, there used to practised all day long--from sunrise to sunset. The first three years doing nothing but the basic conditioning exercises, the forms were only taught at the fourth year. Took him about ten years to graduate. He used to lament that most of the Kung Fu he saw nowaday are "flowery fists and embroidered kicks", nice to look at, but will not survive a single punch from him. Told me that before you learned to hit, you have to learn how to take the hits first. And I should spend the first few years doing nothing but conditioning and learning how to punch and kick properly before going to any techniques. As for why a Buddhist Temple ended up been a Martial Art Mecca? I think it could be an accident by circumstances. The early forms taught by Bodhidharma might be Yoga-like exercises which later developed into a Martial Art by the monks for them to defend themselves from the bandits in the mountain. Later the temple somehow became the refuge centre for all the rebels and ex-generals from over-turned governments, who incidentally were also accomplished martial artists. Even though they became Shaolin monks to avoid prosecution, they might kept on practising their arts and passed them down. By the way, I think most of the great warriors in Chinese, Korean and Japanese history were also devoted Buddhists. Any explainations? Sincerely, S. H. Wee > From: "Michael Choi" > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:39:17 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: various > 1. My Hapkido Kwanjangnim mentioned Shaolin Temple yesterday and how both > little kids and adults train exhaustively hard all day long, even > spearhanding boiling water in order to develop their striking power. What's > the reasoning/origin of Shaolin Boxing if Buddhism eschews violence? I read > that the Shaolin Temple was burned down a very long time ago and the monks > dispersed. Are the monks at the (rebuilt) Shaolin temple practicing the > original techniques or is it just a tourist trap set up by the Chinese > government? ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:18:04 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: First Amendment Danny Dunn: <> Right on dude! Look at all the people who drive lethal weapons every day! I say lets ban all automobiles! Too many people are killed every day by cars and trucks, it's about time we put a stop to it! You know who's fault it is? All the big Automakers - for putting such a dangerous product out on the streets! What? You weren't talking about motorized vehicles? oops.... my bad. never mind.....(using my Gilda Radner voice) Mac Corrupting today's youth through martial arts, creating the bad ass leaders of tomorrow. :-P ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:15:13 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hitman book case In message <200008172111.RAA16381@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> you write: > >From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:01:05 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: First Amendment > >Scott, > >I have to disagree with you this one. Who makes the decision that something >shouldn't be allowed to be printed or said because it may be harmful? If you > or >I make that decision this time its OK with me. But consider this. > >What if a person is killed or hurt by an unscrupulous martial artist or a nov >ice >with a technique learned from a video or book. Is this the fault of the aut >hor >or the publisher? Is it the fault of the person's instructor? There is a ver >y >large percentage of the citizens of this country who will never study martial >arts. Further, there are many who believe that the martial arts are about >unnecessary violence. To them, the only reason to buy a martial art book or >video, or to attend a martial art class for that matter, is to learn to fight >and hurt someone. If you need some evidence, look at the laws already in pla >ce >that have a long list of traditional martial art weapons that you can not >legally possess or transport. I think the difference here is that the book was seen to be specifically written to give people advice on how to kill someone, whereas martial arts instruction is not announced by the instructor as "wanna kill someone, come here and learn". I have been asked why I want to do something "violent" like tkd. I point out that soccer is just as violent, resulting in many bloody noses, especially if you are goalkeeper :-). That ball HURTS if you get it in the face, trust me. Incidentally, in the UK, if you practice any martial art or boxing (yes I know people are divided as to whether boxing is a martial art, I have no views on this matter) your hands are considered a deadly weapon. So if you do attack someone, you get a stiffer sentence. However, I don't think anyone would seriously consider sueing a tkd, karate or boxing coach here.... > >Think it can't or won't happen. Take a look at what is happening right now t >o >the second amendment. There is a large percentage of people who want to >transfer the responsibility for an individual's actions to an inantimate piec >e >of metal, and further to the companies that make them. Look at the Erm, (can of worms), if guns were not available people wouldn't use them to kill. My view is that if any idiot can get their hands on a firearm, BAD things will happen. I think only those responsible and moral enough to treat such weapons with care and respect should have access to them... (my 2p). Donnla. ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Moye Tongji and 18 weapons "If the Sip P'pal Gi was extracted form Muye Tonji Tubo, then it would most probably based on the compulsory 18 weapons as in Chinese Military." Keep in mind that the Moye Tongji was written by Master Han Kyo who researched the traditional tribal martial arts (Sa Do Mu Sul)of Korea. So if Sip P'pal Gi was extracted from the Muye Tonji, then it would be based on Korean tribal martail arts more than Chinese military arts. Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 7:00:42 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Hitman book case > My view is that if any idiot can get their hands on a firearm, BAD things > will happen. I think only those responsible and moral enough to treat such > weapons with care and respect should have access to them... (my 2p). But who do we entrust with the power to decide for all? Therein lies the problem that few have yet to solve, save the US and our BoR. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 7:03:50 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Moye Tongji and 18 weapons > Keep in mind that the Moye Tongji was written by > Master Han Kyo who researched the traditional tribal > martial arts (Sa Do Mu Sul)of Korea. That is one camp. However most believe that it was primarily Korea's examination of the Chinese military arts of the time. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 7:04:18 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #553 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.