From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #571 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 24 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 571 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: ITF/WTF the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #570 the_dojang: JZ the_dojang: Re: Hapkido 9th Dan the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #570 the_dojang: Billing Agents the_dojang: Re: Flexibility V7 #543 the_dojang: Re:Black Belt Ceremony the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 995 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steffen Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: ITF/WTF > From: Piotr Bernat > Subject: the_dojang: Re: ITF/WTF > > > Many (most? all?) ITF'ers are opposed to the WTF's sparring > > rules, which the WTF would probably want to hang on to. Many > > (most? all?) WTF'ers would be very reluctant to learn the ITF > > patterns and the "sine wave", two things the ITF is likely to > > insist on. > > > > While (re)unification is perhaps possible at this point, I have no > > idea what it would produce. ;-) > > We already did a kind of "unification" in our school, that means, > we do WTF style, but fight both in WTF and in different "ITF-type" > events (like GTF or Taekwon-Do International). We would gladly > enter ITF events as well but so far there are no open ITF events in > our country. I feel it would be great if both groups would keep > their sets of patterns (which are in fact a sport on its own, > separate from fighting), but allow fighters from other groups to > compete in fighting. OK, yes, wait a minute. One group letting people from the other group compete at tournaments is one thing. This is not uncommon. But this isn't what I meant by 'unification'. Unification means to me that the two organizations become one; this is what I don't think is very likely. I _do_ think it's possible to increase cooperation between the organizations, but I'm not sure what _real_ effect that would have. > Just like in wrestling there are Greco-Roman and freestyle. I saw > reports from events held e.g. in Great Britain where ITF people > fought in WTF styled events and vice versa. Right, but unification implies that both the ITF and WTF agree on format and rules for competition. Given the differing philosophies between the two groups, I don't see any way for that to happen. > However, until the politicians get their act together, I doubt that > it will happen in the near future. It's not just the politicians. I'm not sure what a unified ITF and WTF would be. One or the other group would have to be very flexible about some things; I don't see either of them doing that, as it would involve changing their definition of what TKD is. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: Todd Miller Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:42:41 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #570 Thanks Ray. Do you know if Jurg Zeigler was promoted by GM Ji to 9th dan? TM ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:08:10 PDT Subject: the_dojang: JZ > Thanks Ray. Do you know if Jurg Zeigler was promoted by GM Ji to 9th > dan? Not sure... Same answer as when you asked this same question ~3 months ago (on May 11). :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: BTBEACH@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:05:55 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido 9th Dan Jin Pal Kim is a 9th dan under GM Ji Han Jae although he is no longer part of his organization. His certificate is number 8. Brian ------------------------------ From: "Carl W" Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:26:26 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #570 >From: Piotr Bernat >We already did a kind of "unification" in our school, that means, we do WTF >style, but fight both in WTF and in different "ITF-type" events (like GTF >or Taekwon-Do International). We would gladly enter ITF events as well but >so far there are no open ITF events in our country. I feel it would be >great if both groups would keep their sets of patterns (which are in fact a >sport on its own, separate from fighting), but allow fighters from other >groups to compete in fighting. Just like in wrestling there are Greco-Roman >and freestyle. I saw reports from events held e.g. in Great Britain where >ITF people fought in WTF styled events and vice versa. However, until the >politicians get their act together, I doubt that it will happen in the near >future. FYI. An excerpt from our Winter 2000 newletter: "Two members of the ITF, ABC were given permission to attent a WTF tournament as a goodwill gesture. A 1st degree black belt and red belt 2nd grade attended the tournament held in early October. While both gentlemen expressed surprise at a few of the differences in the two styles, the judges at the tournament were exceptionally fair. The only questionable item was a 5 point deduction from a possible ten in the pattern competition. Our guys still received a silver in patterns even with the huge handicap. They also won a silver in the sparring division. They were penalized for punching to the face which is not allowed in the WTF style." (ITF, ABC = ITF Alberta Chapter) Carl W. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:32:40 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Billing Agents Ray wrote: > Anyone out there with their own school using one of the martial arts > management groups like EFC, EasyPay, Global Finance, etc? > > Comments, pro or con? > > Ray Terry After an eternity of running a non-profit school (first by design, later by accident), I finally made the plunge to have someone else collect our dues. This happened about four years ago, and the main difference I saw in my school was that I no longer had to dig into my own pocket to pay rent. In addition, I had the opportunity to meet and communicate with some nice folks at various events. Networking has many benefits, some for business sake and others simply to learn a different way on doing the same old things. My schools never did turn into one of those "Super Businesses" where the monthly check from the billing agency exceeds $50,000.00. I am still wrestling with turning some of my own students around to this different view. They are a true chip off the old block, and they certainly resist some of the changes I have made (usually without knowing this themselves). It is not that my students are disrespectful to my wishes, it is just difficult to change the spots on a leopard. I have been told bluntly that, if I want to become financially successful, I need to get rid of those who stand in the way of progress unless they change their ways. Alas, I can never repay years of loyalty that way, so I may have to accept the fact that I will never have a successful school in terms of finances. However, pay comes in many different forms, and I enjoy great rewards in many other ways on a daily basis. Suffice it to say that I have mixed feelings about billing agents, and their value is as much or as little as you want to (or can) take from them. I have seen some schools who do very well financially due to the billing agent (and still remain solid schools as far as instruction is concerned), and I have also seen some schools that are simply a good business that leave a lot to be desired in terms of teaching good martial arts (it never ceases to amaze me how these people can get students). I am also sure that this may not have anything to do with the billing agents. I have personally seen some old dinos who managed to completely turn their schools around financially, and some (like myself) are still working at it. I truly believe there is a place for good schools that do not have to suffer financially, I just have not found the right combination yet. I have the perseverance, and I'll keep working on it (for my Instructors' sake). Some reasons for the lack of my schools' financial growth had little to do with the way I run my schools OR the billing agents. I simply threw too many of my hard earned dollars in the direction of the association I was part of. Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: WojoSG@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:32:37 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Flexibility V7 #543 Dear Mr. Bagshaw, I just wanted to let you know that yours is quite a LARGE group. I too started a little late (41+) after 25 years of chronic back problems and more visits to the chiropractor than I care to admit. The stretch comes slowly, but it does come! When I first began practicing TKD, I could barely reach my ankles while stretching. My lower back and hamstrings were so tight, I couldn't sit on the floor without tipping over unless I was leaning on something. All I can say is KEEP AT IT. Stretch, stretch, stretch. It's been three years for me now. ZERO visits to the chiropractor in 2 years, I can wrap my palms over the top of my toes and I'm up to about 130 degrees on my stretching machine. Good luck to you, Stan Wojcoski (enjoying the journey) ------------------------------ From: Tpmmac@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:34:18 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:Black Belt Ceremony My son and I both promoted to black belt this month. It was a proud moment for me to see my son get his black belt. The ceremony was great. Our school preforms the ceremony during promotion tests. The ceremony is usually done about half way through the promotions. All the black belt line up in a circle around the promoting students. The black belt is given to the 2nd highest ranking belt in attendance. He/she removes their belt and puts the your belt on. It is then passed to the next black belt to do the same and as the next one is tieing the belt the first one shakes your hand and congratulates you and gives you a few words of encouragemnet. Once the circle of black belts have done this Our Master, whom is Il Kwon Kim 9th Dan, puts the belt on and then removes it and ties it for you. It was great!. My family & friends were there to see my first big step on my journey to enlightenment. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:17:21 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #571 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.