From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #615 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 25 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 615 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Army Combatives the_dojang: Nice to meet a list member=George Petrotta the_dojang: Sorry :P the_dojang: USA Olympic Matches the_dojang: Ninjutsu... Re: the_dojang: USA Olympic Matches the_dojang: Olympic Judo V7 #606 the_dojang: Chatter the_dojang: 3rd Blue Belt Stripe! the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #614 the_dojang: RE: Combatives in Police Actions & Army Combatives the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1150 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:53:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Army Combatives >>From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:46:25 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:Army Combatives To be taught at Basic training for all job descriptions. It consists of: Fighter's base ( a sitting position, which allows a fast stand up) Fighter's stance Dominant position (basically the top mounted position) The guard The rear mounted position Escape the guard Escape the mount Shrimp the mount, attain the mount (A mount reversal) Cross collar choke Guillotine choke Rear naked choke Jab Cross Front kick Round kick Knee Then all trainees will have a 1 minute bout at the end of the 6 hour program of instruction....<<<< They learn all of this in six hours, including the chokes and then go at each other? Does anyone else find this kind of scary? Todd ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Nice to meet a list member=George Petrotta Mr. George Petrotta and I had a nice visit and chat. He was passing through from New York to South Carolina. Glad to meet a list member and share a few thoughts in person. George, have a safe trip back home. Ken McDonough __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Sarah Pride Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:51:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Sorry :P >>>Do you have any thing about martial arts drills to comment on. At least I placed that in my response.<<< OK, I am sorry. I didn't mean to offend or even attempt to embarrass you or anything. At least if I _did_ offend or embarrass you, you sure have gotten me back - with overkill. Anyway, you're right; my post was out of line. It didn't contain the slightest bit of usefulness of any type. And I certainly don't want any people any this list to not like me. So although I have some great retorts just ready to spill over into this post, please accept my most heartfelt apologies. :) In response to the original poster, I would definitely say you're doing OK with that workout schedule. That's more than I do, even though I have seven siblings and one dad who also practice TKD, the MA I study. Thus, built-in sparring partners. I go to classes three times a week and practice all my forms and lift weights at least two of the other days; on Saturday or Sunday I get in a really intensive practice workout. I should start up running in the mornings though, because that's the big stamina thing. For practicing kicks, punches and other strikes you will definitely need a heavy bag. Until you can get one of those expensive little things, I would suggest perhaps purchasing a couple of those paddles with the hand protection. Maybe, even if your fiancee does not want you beating her black and blue, she may not mind holding these paddles for you to demolish. One benefit of paddles over a heavy bag, too, is that the person holding the paddles can move, unlike the bag. So if you can train the holder to move and tilt the paddles the right way, you can get in some good sparring drills. :) Another important factor is visualization. I don't know where I heard this, but someone somewhere did a study that showed that the muscles of people who visualized exactly what they needed to do in an activity actually grew larger in the particular areas needed for that activity. I don't know if this is true or not. But I do know that if I'm having trouble with something and I try to picture exactly what it will look like and feel like from my point of view if I'm doing it right - the next time I try it it's _much_ easier. I hope this is _some_ use. - -Sarah Pride- ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:44:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: USA Olympic Matches Kay Poe fights at 10:00 a.m., and Juan Moreno at 10:45 a.m., on Wednesday, the 27th. A list of further matches and the opponents may be seen at www.ohiotkd.org Haven't heard about the higher weights yet. Sally SallyBaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:19:24 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Ninjutsu... Hi, I was just wondering if I could get some information on Ninjutsu, anything would be great, whether it is opinions or facts. What is ninjutsu? or does anyone have any links to any sites that they recomend? Thanks, Kadin Goldberg _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:07:07 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: USA Olympic Matches > Kay Poe fights at 10:00 a.m., and Juan Moreno at 10:45 a.m., on Wednesday, > the 27th. That is Sydney timezone, right? I believe in the US it is Tuesday evening. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Bernard Maginnity Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:59:35 +1000 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Olympic Judo V7 #606 Does anyone know how countries other than the U.S. are doing in the Judo competition? I am especially interested in Japan and Korea (home of the ever popular "Yudo"). I have heard that these two countries usually have some pretty heated matches between each other. Also, does anyone know if North Korea is competing in Judo? Taekwon, Chris I went to the Olympic Judo on Friday afternoon and saw the over 100KG mens and over 78kg womens Judo. Japan was very strong in both the mens and womens. Korea played well in the womens wiping out the only Australian female competitor in less than thirty seconds. They had more of a struggle with the mens, not sure if they went through. I did not see or hear any mention of North Korea. Regards Bernard ------------------------------ From: Bernard Maginnity Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:09:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Chatter Hi All Over Eighteen club. 2. I am hesitant to post to the list. Number one reason being that there is such a wealth of knowledge already being contributed and because I was given one mouth and two ears. Better to do twice as much listening? 3. Have attended as much as five times a week. Current work schedule only allows for a couple. I am currently practicing Taekwon-Do and am hanging out at a local Hapkido Dojang (A LOT). BTW If Yean Wei Ong or David Jewell are about could you please get in touch, or if anyone knows of their whereabouts could you drop me a line. Kum sa humnida Bernard ------------------------------ From: Tim Bruening Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:49:57 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: 3rd Blue Belt Stripe! The week before last week, I recieved my 3rd Blue Belt stripe. This Wednesday, I test for my Brown Belt. ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:21:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #614 In a message dated 9/24/00 4:54:58 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << MHO...it is time to start failing these kids or not letting them test until they can prove their proficiency...if they cry...let them cry, they'll get over it and maybe even start to put forth an effort...if they quit...let them quit...but teach them that nothing comes for free...you must work for what you want to achieve... >> no need to fail them, just don't let them test until they are ready. Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: Smith Gordon SSgt 752MUNSS/SFO Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:01:03 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Combatives in Police Actions & Army Combatives Dakin, I'm glad that you brought this question up. I am currently the Non-Commissioned Officer In-Charge (NCOIC) of Security Forces Training for Volkel Air Base, The Netherlands. I train all aspects of our career field, from Military Operations Other Than War (MOOTW); MP Operations/Community Oriented Policing; to War-time Taskings. Unlike the Army and Marines who go forward to crash heads with the enemy, if it comes down to hand-to-hand combat on an Air Force Installation all of us have failed our duties. The enemy pretty much has to defeat the Army before they get to our defenses. Which leads to the way our (Air Force) "Power's that be" set up our core training objectives. On 1 August 1999 the Air Force implemented a strict but flexible Use of Force policy. Civilian Police Officer's are probably familiar with this policy. As Security Forces members we were always trained as a combat force. So, when it came to making the transition from "Combat" to "Community Oriented Policing" we went to the expert's. Civilian Police Officer's. I will try to shorten this as much as possible, but here is the down and dirty on Arming and Use of Force by Air Force Personnel, Air Force Instruction (AFI) 31-207: The Supreme Court recognized in Graham v. Connor that law enforcement and security personnel have to make "split-second judgments"concerning the use of force under "circumstances that are tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving..." The criteria supporting "objective reasonableness" is provided from three essential areas within the confrontational environment: the subject(s) actions, the risk perception, and the officer response initiated in order to gain compliance and control. For this the Air Force adopted the "Use of Force Model(UFM)" first developed in 1991, by the Professor Gregory J. Connor, University of Illinois Police Training Institute and staff of the Federal Law Enforcement training Center. The UFM is a three-sided, five tiered structure. The UFM describes the progression or de-escalation of force based upon the demonstrated level of compliance or resistance. Ideally, each counter flows iun a logical and legal sequence of cause and effect based upon reasonable perception of risk, causing you to escalate, de-escalate, or maintain a level of appropriate force to gail or maintain control of the subject. The elements involved in the use of force are integrated in the UFM. Each component; "subject's action," "risk perception," and "officer's response" is essential for a balanced use of force. Subject Action- The action(s) perceived by the "reasonable officer" that place the subject in one or more of the Model's compliant/non-compliant categories. Risk Perception- The situations that are perceived by the "reasonable officer" within a confrontational environment which present a risk or potential risk to officer safety. Issues include the nature and severity of the crime, degree of subject non-compliance, knowledge of the subject's previous actions, etc., can act as a test for reasonableness and a criteria for placement in one or more of the perception categories on the UFM. Officer Response- The "balanced" response the "reasonable officer" could and/or would select from the UFM's identified categories, in order to maintain or regain subject compliance and control. Each of these three elements have five levels associated with them that are designed to flow with each other (e.g.; 2nd Level: if the "Subject(s) actions" are {Resistant Passive} the "Risk Perception" would be {Tactical} and the "Officer Response" should be {Contact Controls}) (e.g.; 5th Level: if the "Subject(s) actions" are {Assaultive Serious Bodily Harm/Death} the "Risk Perception" would be {Lethal} and the "Officer Response" should be {Deadly Force}.) The "Progressive Application of Force" encompasses three main elements of action and assessment: tools, tactics, and timing. All of the UFM elements and their level's as well as the three main elements of action and assessment are broken down into definitions, explanations, and theories. If you read the whole policy carefully it brings you back to what most of us self-defense based martial artists have been training most of our lives. If you are forced to defend yourself in a non-lethal situation, once you have controlled or disabled your attacker you don't continue to "tenderize" the person. You either de-escalate and get the hell out of dodge or if need be stabilize and wait for the calvary. In a lethal situation it's fight-or-flight, game on, and may the best man win by any means necessary. If anyone would like a copy of this Use of Force Model, which comes with an attached lesson plan, contact me at gordon.smith@volkel.spangdahlem.af.mil Those of you out there that are going back and forth over the "Army Combatives" system I can tell you one thing...it is 1000x better than what the Air Force taught us back at the Security Police Academy. They (a group of instructors with no martial arts background) taught, and I use the term loosely, "Ikkyo" which are very basic Aikido techniques for grabs. Anyone out there who knows anything about the concepts of Aikido knows that you can not grasp the "entering," "upright," and "circular motions" of Aikido in a few days. Coupled with the fact that the way they taught the techniques must have made Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido R.I.P, roll over in his resting place. To make matters even more "jacked-up," these few day's in the academy are the only self-defense training taught to us throughout our entire career. Lucky for me that I started martial arts training as a teenager. There have been plenty of times that my martial arts background has bailed me out of situations, while my (three-day USAF "Ikkyo" trained) partner stood there with the "deer in the headlights" wondering what action to take. Han, SunBiNim, Gordon2-sends 1st Dan, Han Mu Do ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 7:02:22 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #615 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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