From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #618 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 26 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 618 In this issue: the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's TKD Textbook the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #617 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #616 the_dojang: Hand to hand/Military svc the_dojang: WSD the_dojang: Juan Moreno the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do Weapons the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #617 the_dojang: Re: Nice to meet a list member=George Petrotta; thanks the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? the_dojang: Best books of all times. the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #616 Re: the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1150 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SunBiNim@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:40:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's TKD Textbook In a message dated 9/25/00 3:34:41 PM Central Daylight Time, Chris Spiller writes: << Also, has anyone read Dr. He-Young Kimm's _Taekwon-Do_ textbook? I am interested in buying it but would like a little information first. >> Chris, Don't get this book if you are looking for a TKD book. The book is actually self defense techniques for TKD students to add to their training. However, it is a great tool for those who wish to add joint locks, throws, palm strikes, weapons, etc. to their training regiment. It could be called "Han Mu Do Lite" since it includes about 50% of the HMD rank requirements. Thanks, Steve Kincade ------------------------------ From: Mike_Devich@selinc.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:34:11 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #617 Mr. Rogers, Would you please answer the questions that you posed to the group? Thank you mmd From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:33:37 EDT I see alot about what a Soldier needs to know to survive in combat and I can't help but wonder, how many of you on this list have actually served in the Armed Forces? 2nd How many have been in combat? 3rd Did you have to use any of the Hand to Hand training that you recieved? Just wondering. Dan Rogers U.S.Army( Special Forces 1973-1988) ------------------------------ From: Greg Purdy Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:55:48 +1200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #616 Ray and Sally, Hope you allowed for the 1hr daylight saving that Sydney introduced a month early especially for the Games, just to get you all calculating!! Greg. >From: SallyBaughn@aol.com >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:58:01 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: Re: USA Olympic Matches > >Ray wrote: > ><< That is Sydney timezone, right? I believe in the US it is Tuesday evening. > >> > >Right,as usual, Ray. : ) > >Subtract 15 hours to make it EDT. Which should make it about 7 p.m. Tuesday >night -- perfect for prime time if only NBC would have cooperated. > >Sally >SallyBaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:03:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hand to hand/Military svc Please remember that it has been almost 30 years since my separation from the military, and I was unfortunate enough to spend 51 months in a combat situation (minus the 7 months that I spent in a hospital recovering from a case of "standing too close to an explosion" syndrome) where, unfortunately again, I was forced to use the hapkido training that I received from my ROK friends while serving as a communications liaison to the Korean 25th infantry (Tiger) division. Had I relied on the "hand to hand" training that I barely received prior to entering Vietnam, I felt fairly sure that I would NOT have made it home. Nothing I was EVER shown in the US Army was practical for the stuff I ran into, and the few things that MAY have worked were never committed to muscle memory due to time constraints. A few years ago I was invited by Major Mike Wadsworth of the 2nd Ranger Training Battalion, Ft. Benning, GA, to teach some of the upper level NCOs what I had picked up from hapkido and my personal experiences in the jungle. Although the guys I worked with were incredibly interested in what I had to teach, I could tell that in a worst case scenario they would be in deep trouble. It seems to me that most of the "close quarter combatives" that are now taught, are taught by those that have never actually been in combat, or at least haven't been in the type of combat that they were attempting to prepare the men for. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a solution for this problem so all we can hope for is to give our guys the best we can and hope that the opportunity for hand to hand, or close quarter combatives, just doesn't happen. J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Daniel G." Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:28:03 EDT Subject: the_dojang: WSD What is WSD anyway? ~Daniel >I'm currently trying to get some new classes started. There >is a small TKD school near me that I am trying to get a HKD >class started in. And trying to move my WSD class to there >as well. The problem is that they have no high ranking >students. Their Master died in febuary and be before she >left she sold the school to two white belts. They are >running the school but the highest rank there is a 16 year >old 2nd dan Girl. While I think we can help each other out, >they can provide a me with a space to teach HKD and WSD >classes, and I can help them teach TKD. The problems are: >How do you enter a school and start teaching without >alienating all the high ranking students? >There's no one there that is of a level for me to really >train with so I still have to find someplace else to workout at. >And they don't have a open time slot that will work well for >my WSD class.(requires that there are no other classes going >on) Any Ideas? > >Scott _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Gregg London Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:53:09 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Juan Moreno Good Day Group, I agree with Jose's earlier comment - Juan is not getting the same type of press coverage afforded to Kay Poe. Sadly, the only Taekwondo we will see will be an MSNBC feature on Kay and Esther Kim. Which is a shame, because, lost in the shuffle, will be stories about the Lopez family, Barb Kunkel's dedication, etc. At least Sports Illustrated extended modest coverage to the Lopez family in recognition of their achievements. Juan is a class act; and for those of us at the Olympic Trials, the sight of Juan hugging his child and his wife was priceless. Gregg - -- Gregg London Digital Engineer http://www.glondon.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:06:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? > >From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:57:36 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: How Old Is It? > >In a message dated 9/24/00 2:55:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > >> How can they claim that TKD is 20 centuries old when the name wasn't coined >> until the mid 1950's? This kind of misleading "reporting" hurts TKD's >> credibility, IMHO. > > I understand this point quite well and it is accurate to the letter. It >is also quite reasonable, however, to say taekwondo is 20 Centuries old, too, >as, to the typical reader who is likely to see this on NBC's Olympic website, >it belabors the point to say "Taekwondo is the 40 year-old name for the >modern incarnation or synthesis of the martial arts indigenous to Korea for >over 2,000 years." Sir, I'm very sorry that I must disagree with you on this point. Taekwon-do is not " the 40 year-old name for the modern incarnation or synthesis of the martial arts indigenous to Korea for over 2,000 years." Taekwon-do is a modern martial art much like Akido, Hapkido, Judo and various styles of karate. From what I've read the old arts of Korea were mostly wiped out by the Japanese occupation. The Kwans that later became Kukki-Taekwondo or ITF Taekwon-do were developed in the years immediately following World War Two. The men who developed these systems were mostly Japanese or Chinese trained martial artists. In many cases they used the Japanese names for their arts and taught Japanese forms for many years. To me the statement on the NBC web site in nothing more than the same miss-information that has been produced by and spread for the past 30 years (or so) about the origins of Taekwon-do. From my vantage point it appears that either the WTF and/or the South Korean government are so afraid of Choi Hong Hi (and his supporters) that they will do anything to deny several years of Korean martial arts history during the 1950's and 1960's. I don't understand this. Why can't they admit that the WTF was formed strictly to promote Taekwon-do as an Olympic sport and that the Kukkiwon was formed as a competitor to the ITF? And formed only in the early 1970's? The WTF has seen limited success in the Olympics. At least it has official medal standing, even if limited by the number of competitors and general media coverage. Other Taekwon-do organizations such as the ATA and Jhoon Rhee have no problem recognizing Choi Hong Hi's contribution and going about their business. Why not the WTF or Kukkiwon? > As I see it, it is like teaching school children that the earth is >"round," or "spherical." This is a very good (and "true") beginners >definition even though later we learn that the earth is actually a slightly >oblate spheroid, larger around the equator than the poles. >SESilz I don't see this at all. It is like teaching children that the United States is 3000 years old because we can trace the basic form of American democracy to ancient Greece. Understand sir, that I mean no disrespect to you or to your position in the USTU. The work that the WTF and its NGB's has done to develop its Olympic sport is to be admired by all martial artists. However, its work in cooperation with certain elements of South Korea (and others) to distort events that led to the creation of Taekwon-do should be viewed less favorably. Respectfully submitted, Robert Martin A-4-336 United States Taekwon-do Federation International Taekwon-do Federation ------------------------------ From: nick.mckenna@rs-components.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:16:32 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Tang Soo Do Weapons Dear All The weapons you study depend greatly on your instructor. We mainly study the bong (staff) and knife. We are also starting to do double short sticks. In addition, our instructor offers individual instruction to students who train regularly (and are ready) in specific weapons. These include sword, nunchaku, halberd and a thousand others I can't remember. The main thing is that you need to find an instructor who teaches weapons as not all TSD instructors do! Pil Seung! Nick McKenna *************************************************************** The contents of this Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. The views stated herein do not necessarily represent the view of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this Email you may not copy, forward, disclose or otherwise use it or any part of it in any form whatsoever. If you have received this mail in error please Email the sender. *************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: todd miller Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:25:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #617 > From: "J. R. West" > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:21:04 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Diabetes and HapKiDo > > Several years ago, while gathering donations for the American Diabetes > Association, we found out that my wife was a Type I (insulin dependant) > diabetic. In retrospect it took almost 3 years to get her glucose readings > under control, and we BOTH suffered from a lack of information from others > in the same position, so our "education" was mostly self taught. It seems > to me that the trick is to find what works best for you and stick with > that and use you diabetes educator and physician to fill in the blanks, > rather than dictate the course of your treatment. As far as training is > concerned, always keep two things at the school,something to raise the > glucose level in a hurry, and something to lower it in a hurry. As long as > you plan to be at your child's classes, everything should be fine, but if > you are NOT there, someone must be the caregiver in the odd event of some > sort of emergency, and they must be EDUCATED. Please let me know if I can > be of any further assistance.....PS My wife is now wearing a full-time > insulin pump, and the result of that over injections is like night and > day...just something to investigate...J. R. West www.hapkido.com > >I am using the Minimed 507 insulin pump. I have been on the pump since 1997 and it has made a uge difference in my control of dibetes. It does take some getting used too though but it is worth it I think. Todd ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 03:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Nice to meet a list member=George Petrotta; thanks Response: Gee George, I thought you were gonna mention this: "When I arrived, he had on a pair of scruffy blue jeans and a t-shirt that looked like it had been drenched in oil. His breathe had an obvious odor of liquor and his hair was in disarray. He had a dishelved, half-sleep look, and he was obviously out of shape. He could barely walk straight and I had to help him to the couch. He offered me a drink but I asked for coffee instead. His house had cat litter and dog remains all around. No cleaning had taken place in months. He had old pictures of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris posters in his living room falling off from the old scotch tape barely keeping them in place. This was not the image I had of Big Ken McD...I quickly drank my coffee and left." Now that is a story ! Its a wrap. Print it. McD... P.S. Glad to see you made it home safely. Glad to meet a fellow list member and martial artist. - --- gpetrott@excite.com wrote: > If y'all get a chance, drop by and visit brother Ken. He has a very > attractive wife and two boys. His home is a modest "mansion"(sp?). He showed > me pictures of his 1957 Chevy sitting in his driveway, but the car wasn't > there. I believe he had someone park "their" chevy in his driveway so that > he could take pixs of it.;-) > He does have a 67 Chevelle in the garage that is almost "cherry". > I enjoyed visiting with Ken and he also showed me his almost completed home > gym. Really quite something! > Thanks for the hospitality Ken!!! > > george > > On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:49:57 -0700, MartialScience@topica.com wrote: > > > Mr. George Petrotta and I had a nice visit and chat. He was passing > through > > from New York to South Carolina. Glad to meet a list member and share a > > few thoughts in person. > > > > George, have a safe trip back home. > > > > Ken McDonough __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:47:25 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? SESilz replied to an earlier post as follows: {snip}It is also quite reasonable, however, to say taekwondo is 20 Centuries old, too, as, to the typical reader who is likely to see this on NBC's Olympic website, it belabors the point to say "Taekwondo is the 40 year-old name for the modern incarnation or synthesis of the martial arts indigenous to Korea for over 2,000 years." Actually, it is somewhat ridiculous to allude that Taekwondo is twenty centuries old. Yes, there is some archaeological evidence that "suggests" there was martial practice back when, some remaining texts from the late eighteenth century, and historical references to earlier periods and books - - - but little that shows a direct link to the art currently known as TKD. A synthesis of indigenous arts? That is a nice party-line, but what is the reality? The Japanese occupation of c. 1909-1945 pretty much wiped these indigenous arts out, if many survived the "Period of Enlightment." Martial arts of the post-1944 era are strongly influenced by Japan. Evidence of surviving monks teaching lost arts in isolated mountains are taken with amused smiles by most. Tae Kyon, perhaps--Taekwondo, it is doubtful. Also, TKD has changed (evolved?) since the 1940's, taking its own direction. So, it does have a distinct identity now, but based upon 2,000 years of indigenous arts? Quite a stretch Virginia. In closing, I do not see how it is accurate to say this, no matter what the target audience. The lack of centuries of history, however, takes nothing away from the present art or sport. It is ok to tell the truth! I'm actually not being contentious, just tired of the party-line. Dana _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:11:34 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Best books of all times. My list includes: 1) Hapkido Bible 1by Dr. He Young Kim 2) Hapkido Bible 2 by Dr. He Young Kim 3) The Way and the Power by Master Lovret 4) Playboy-any issue 5) Penthouse-any issue 6) Sports Illustrated-swimsuit issue 7) Combat Handguns-any issue I know, I have issues and problems, at least that is what my wife tells me, but I just keep on reading all of these important books while I sit on the toilet!! Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:45:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #616 Richard asked: I was thinking of starting Tang Soo Do and was wondering, if anyone could tell me what weapons (if any) are used and how many forms/patters there are for them ? I've looked on quite a few web sites, but there doesn't seem to be much info about weapons used. Richard, In Tang Soo Do, the weapons a school uses depends on the Association it belongs to and the school itself. The most common weapons used are jang bong (staff), dan gum (knife or dagger), jang gum (sword) and cane. Weapons training varies from Association and school, but most do not begin until around brown belt or 4th to 3rd gup. Also, the number of weapon forms varies with Association. Other weapons used are dan bong (short stick),of which there are two basic types, and ssang dan bong(double short sticks) and choong bong( medium length stick), also both single and double, and nunchaku. I have seen a few schools also use sai and sickle(nat in Korean) but they were not what I would term traditional Tang Soo Do schools. Hope this helps. Danny Dunn ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 7:14:36 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: How Old Is It? > (or so) about the origins of Taekwon-do. From my vantage point it appears > that either the WTF and/or the South Korean government are so afraid of Choi > Hong Hi (and his supporters) that they will do anything to deny several > years of Korean martial arts history during the 1950's and 1960's. Good lord! In what way/shape/form could/would either the WTF or the South Korean government be afraid of Maj. Gen. Choi!!! How does what he has accomplished compare with what the WTF or the RoK has accomplished? The 2000 year old fib is simply a result of a young country looking to create a national heritage. Most every new country does this. And yes Korea is a new country. The area may have a long history, but it too is in no way related to the nation formed after WWII and Korean Wars. An accurate history is coming out. See the RoK Ministry of Culture's recent book, published this year, that has been quoted in this forum and is available for review at http://www.martialartsresource.com. The RoK afraid of an ex-pat retired Maj. Gen... HiHiHiHi... That is rich. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 7:16:13 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #618 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.