From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #625 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 29 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 625 In this issue: the_dojang: TKD Magazines the_dojang: magazines the_dojang: ITF Homeland the_dojang: More ITF the_dojang: Re: Hwarang, 'Flowering Knights' the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1150 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carmelo Gauci" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:05:49 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: TKD Magazines Hello, I would like to know if anybody could help me find a way to = subscribe to a TKD magazine. I have heard of Inside Tae Kwon Do, are = there any others? Will they ship to Europe? Thanks, Carmelo Gauci Green Tab - Birzebbuga Tae Kwon Do Club, Malta. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:36:57 PDT Subject: the_dojang: magazines I think that Inside TKD died a few years ago. Try TKD Times magazine. http://taekwondotimes.com Ray > I would like to know if anybody could help me find a way to = > subscribe to a TKD magazine. I have heard of Inside Tae Kwon Do, are = > there any others? Will they ship to Europe? ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:12:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: ITF Homeland In a message dated 9/28/00 6:17:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Soon after, he left South > Korea and moved ITF headquarters to Canada. (I can't comment on why he did > this. I don't know. Only he does.) If I remember correctly, Mr. Choi established his HQ in Germany, then later switched to Canada. SES ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:25:10 EDT Subject: the_dojang: More ITF In a message dated 9/28/00 6:17:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Does your loyalty blind you to the inaccurate statements like those > on the NBC web site? Are our egos so large that we can't put aside our > differences for the common goal? For one, I would like to thank Mr. Martin for his detailed post and for his reference Mr. Hong Hi Choi opposing taekwondo's Olympic participation because it is not "HIS TRUE TAEKWONDO" [my emphasis added]. His placement of this in quotation marks indicates that he understands that no one person can lay and honest claim taekwondo being "theirs." As for as blind loyalty, I still think the NBC website definition of taekwondo is fine considering the of the audience. For a seminar directed to balckbelts and over, a more time-specific definition, however, should be employed. SESilz ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hwarang, 'Flowering Knights' I actually replied to Ray's Hwarang post one or two days after it was posted, but the mail was lost somewhere out there, so here we go again :-) >I just picked up a good book from the Department of East Asian >Studies, University of Durham. Korea: A Historical and Cultural >Dictionary, Keith Pratt and Richard Rutt. I'm not very impressed with Richard Rutt, he was much too much influenced by Mishima, a Japanese scholar from the 30ies. And he only had very few sources to go by. You can look for yourself in "Rutt, Richard: The Flower Boys of Silla, (Transactions of the Korean Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society. Vol 38, October 1961) p.1-68." But I recommend http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang.htm :-) You also have to remember that the sources span more than 700 years and that the 'purpose' of the Hwarang organization changed several times during that time. (ok let me repeat that: more than 700 years). >Their ideal was called p'ungwolto ('way of wind and moon'), the >original meaning of which is not clear. Well, it's not clear if you read it in the modern translation, but of course you have to read it as they did a thousand years ago, then the meaning is very clear. You can read Professor Peter H. Lee's explanation at http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang2.htm#terms >They are recorded in AD 596, but the date is problematical and they probably existed earlier. Yes. >Mutually irreconcilable legends in Samguk sagi and Samguk yusa >say that If you read each text in historical order the texts are consistent throughout. >They painted their faces and wore jewelled shoes. Very fashionable in AD 596 :-) >They did not remain hwarang for life. No evidence for this. Rutt believed that the Hwarang was a youth organization that people left when they got older. That's also why he translated Hwarang as 'Flower Boys'. >Among about 30 hwarang who are named, only five are described >as soldiers in later life (see Kim Yusin; Kwanch'ang; Sadaham). I have 60 or 70 named Hwarang on my page, many are described as soldiers. But of course it depends on which period they lived in. > (Translating hwarang as 'knight' begs further questions by >introducing inappropriate concepts from European military >chivalry.) I think everybody translates Hwarang as Flowering Knight now because it best describes the purpose of the organization, and that includes Professor Peter H. Lee. Danny wrote: >Why would young men want to paint their faces an sing on >certain mountains? I'm not saying the authors are right or >wrong, just that there is not enough context information to >make their conclusion make sense to me. There are always many >views on history, all colored by the perception and goals of >the author. See the original quote below, this is where the information in Pratt and Rutt's book comes from. But singing has always been an important part of Korean history. Maybe Americans sang more before TV and electricity? I know that the Danes did. Anyway, young men from the west actually painted their faces in the 1980ies – "Duran Duran" etc anyone? The Native Americans painted their faces and so did the French and many others... It all depends on society. I quote Samguk Sagi, Samguk Yusa, and Haedong Kosung Chon: "At first the King and his officials were perplexed by the problem of finding a way to discover the talented people. They wished to have people disport themselves in groups so that they could observe their behavior and thus elevate the talented among them to positions of service. (...) The youths instructed one another in the Way and in righteousness, entertained one another with songs and music, or went sightseeing to even the most distant mountains and rivers. Much can be learned of a man's character by watching him in these activities. Those who fared well were recommended to the court. Kim Taemun, in his Hwarang Segi (Annals of the Hwarang), remarks: "Henceforth able ministers and loyal subjects are chosen from them, and good generals and brave soldiers are born therefrom." I think the purpose is very clear? Travelling to distant mountains and rivers a thousand years ago was probably 'slightly' different from 'driving there in the van', and even today you can learn quite a bit about another person by climbing a mountain with him, wouldn't you say? Post on the modern history coming tomorrow. But I recommend the link somebody already posted: http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd2.htm and Black Belt Magazine September 2000 (GM Joo Bang Lee on the cover) and the new October issue. They both explains the history very well. Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Hadoken162@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:31:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 is there anyone who knows where i can get updates on the health of tang soo do grandmaster kwang kee? i pratice tang soo do moo duk kwan and i hear the grandmaster is dying thank you Sean Kirk Tang Soo!!! ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:32:09 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 Taekwon-Do was started in 1946 and was named in 1955, it is still progressing to this day as General Choi is still alive and making changes from time to time. What ever else being reported is due to reporters not taking the time to check on the facts of their reports. It is based on martial art forms that go back farther in history. The same can be said for any number of other forms. If you want to know more the information is out there on the web. John Murphy A-3-756 ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:23:55 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 >> > >> >An accurate history is coming out. See the RoK Ministry of Culture's >> >recent book, >> Where would I find this book? Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 2:00:23 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 > Taekwon-Do was started in 1946 and was named in 1955, it is still progressing > to this day as General Choi is still alive and making changes from time to > time. IMHO, Taekwondo is Korea's and the world's. Not Major General Choi's... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 2:00:58 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #624 > >> >An accurate history is coming out. See the RoK Ministry of Culture's > >> >recent book, > >> > Where would I find this book? See http://www.martialartsresource.com/korean/spirit.html Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 2:03:21 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #625 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.