From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #647 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 8 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 647 In this issue: the_dojang: The Basic's? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #646 the_dojang: Kidohae & Chartering Rank the_dojang: New ITF Grand Master the_dojang: Re:Aikido-does it really work?(?esp.for b, Rupert, &JRWest) the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:35:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The Basic's? Mr. b, I have read your post time and time again without comment. It is time that I feel others as well as myself would like to know a little about your training background. You continue to make reference regarding lack of The Basic's in the Martial Arts training today. I have been a student of the Martial Arts since 1965 and I have to say the Black Belts of today surpass most of the Black Belts of than. When reading your post it seems that you place all school of today in the same category making very general yet stereotypical statements, concerning the lack of Basic's. The truth is that how can anyone move onto the more advanced skills until they have accomplished the basic's? Your view's of Basic's may be different from those of others to include myself. It seems to me that an individual with your skill and knowledge of the basic's would be a household name within the Martial Arts community. But from where I'm sitting there is little known about the Great Mr. b. Sir please once again I ask that you share with the list members what qualifies you to constantly demean others. Judging from your post the entire world of Martial Artist are wrong and you are the ONLY one that can save us. Because you are the Great Master of the basic's. I would apologize but I do not feel that there is anything for me to be sorry about. On the one hand I will say without the basic's one cannot go forward however I cannot agree without that NO ONE teaches the basic's and that all Martial Arts are being taught as a Watered down version of there original form. Please Sir go back and do some meditating on why you are so bitter. To the rest of the members on this list I apologize for going on, thank you for allowing me to do so. I just feel that to many of the younger Instructors on this list as well as others have devoted to much to be looked down on by some archaic dinosaur, who refuse to change. Dan ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:44:58 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #646 Paul Rogers, Sir where is Round Rock Texas? I live in Louisiana an was wondering how far apart they may be. Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:57:48 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Kidohae & Chartering Rank From: HwarangTSD@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:13:34 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: kido hae and ichf "it was my understanding that the kido hae is only chartered to represent a style of "korean kung fu" and not hapkido as pelligrini represents. does anyone have any information on this?" No, Kidohae is a chartering organization. In truth, one need not have a legitimate lineage or even a link to Korea to become a member. Several people who currently hold high dan in the Kidohae have been started at high dan, and are founders of their own school, including Pelligrini, who went from 1st dan in the AHA and a 4th or 5th dan in taekwondo to 8th dan in his own system, Combat Hapkido. The Kidohae does not discriminate on the basis of nationality (at least as far as rank goes--everyone pays the same fee, which goes up as the dan goes up--this is the modern trend). In case anyone thinks I'm trying to take potshots at the Kidohae, Pelligrini, or whatever, the above is just a conclusion based upon facts. Rank has become symbolic of leadership both in Korea and much the rest of the world, and granting a high rank to an individual who leads their own group dates back to Japan in the pre-war years (butokukai). High rank is a political symbol granting authority to the leader of a group. Rank is still used this way in Japan, Korea, and much of the U.S. Rank does not guaruntee skill or education, although there are educated and skillful individuals of high rank. ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:43:32 GMT Subject: the_dojang: New ITF Grand Master I was just on the newly redesigned ITF homepage. According to them, there is a new Ninth Dan Grand Master named Kong, Yong Il. Grand Master Kong is apparently based in the USA. Has anyone ever heard of Grand MAster Kong before? Perhaps he is the new Grand Master people had heard about maybe a month ago. I believe Dave Steffan said it may have been Choi, Jung Hwa (Gen. Choi's son) who was promoted. Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:11:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:Aikido-does it really work?(?esp.for b, Rupert, &JRWest) OK I have a question for the Aikido practitioners which I hope will not be inflammatory. It is not meant to be, it is a sincere question. I am impressed with the honest and humble responses by Aikido practitioners such as Rupert and b so I can expect an honest reply. First let me say that I think Aikido is a great martial art. In terms of the "do" aspect it is the most subtle and I think the best. If I were a younger I would definitely study it. The understanding of movement and the philosophical/spiritual focus are superior to any other art in my opinion. But I have serious questions about its efficacy in realistic self defense situations. (Now even though I practice WTF Taekwondo I also have questions about WTF Taekwondo in this regard - I also practice Hapkido). My question is, what do you think of the effectiveness of Aikido on the street for the AVERAGE (not Master) black belt compared to say the average black belt in, say Jujitsu, Hapkido, Karate, etc.? My problems with Aikido in this regard include. 1) The attacks that they defend against in training seem very unrealistic, most seem to be these over extended chops to the head. It seems they are adapted from sword attacks, but No-one attacks like that in a fight. The punches they defend against also seem unrealistic, again overextended Karate type lunge punches. I haven't seen any one defend against a boxer style of punching. Can Aikido deal with someone who jabs and punches like a boxer? A related point is that Aikido practitioners are taught to go along with tori, allowing themselves to be thrown, maintaining contact with tori throughout the throw. But what happens with an opponent who doesn't flow along like that? 2) The opponent (uke) is restrained but not taken out, unlike Hapkido or Jujitsu where you often break or dislocate something in a finish up. This could be a problem with multiple attackers, where if you don't completely disable the first person you take down, when you move to engage the second person, attacker # 1 could get up and come at you again. 3) Aikido practitioners seem to throw the uke far away rather than keep them close and in control. I trained with a jujitsu master who had a friend who was a very skilled Aikidoka. This man was attacked and threw his opponent pretty far. The attacker got up, about four feet away, pulled out a gun and shot the Aikidoka, killing him. If he had thrown the man close and kept him close and tight he would not have been killed. Finally, while I appreciate the philosophy behind Aikido, I wonder if it is realistic to hope to defend oneself with no disabling strikes or kicks to an attacker. Usually, you are pretty lucky to thwart a strong attack, you might not be so lucky if he gets up ad tries again. So it makes sense to me that you must disable the attacker rather than risk another attack, and not be so lucky the next time. My jujitsu sensie said that there is a man in NY, Goldberg I believe is his name, who is a master in both jujitsu and Aikido. My sensie said that this man advocates learning a hard style first, such as jujitsu or Hapkido and then moving from there to training in Aikido, so that you approach Aikido from a more realistic base and compensate from some of the weakness in Aikido in this regard. I wonder what others think of this. Perhaps my questions and comments reflect some misunderstandings re Aikido. If so I look forward to learning. But I would like an honest discussion or analysis, including responses from those such as Rupert and b re the practical self-defense value of Aikido, especially against someone who fights like a boxer and against a good street fighter. I am also curious to hear Master JR West's opinion on this as he is a Hapkido Master who also holds Dan rank in Aikido. Jose ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 17:36:33 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #647 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.