From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #657 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 12 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 657 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: For Lorr, et al. the_dojang: Aikido in Military the_dojang: re-discovering TKD the_dojang: Re: Writings of Professor B; Mr. Pieratt the_dojang: Aikido in the Marine Corp Re: the_dojang: re-discovering TKD the_dojang: FORM videos MPEG format the_dojang: enlightened marines the_dojang: RE: Aikido in the military the_dojang: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Seminar - Humble Texas the_dojang: Marine MA the_dojang: Re: GM Han the_dojang: Re: Writings of Professor B; the issue the_dojang: Late ATA President, Lee, Hang Woong the_dojang: Re: Basics..food...culture vs physiology the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: For Lorr, et al. Lorr stated: > Living in the Jersey suburbs all my life, this was a frightening eye opener on our visits to the big city. The basic instinct of survival. Always enjoy your posts. Tae Kwon,Lorr> Response: Thanks Lorr. I sincerely appreciate your comments. I realize that I risk being shot at by writing on a few observations. My comments may appear to be digressions but they are relevant to what keeps me centered on who I am. Everyone on this list has a reference point. If I told you I started the martial arts for an esoteric reason I would be fibbing. The basic reality for me was the urban jungle I was born in and managed to survive in. So those are the metaphors for my martial arts practice. However, having lived beyond the Hudson River I can understand how a layed back Californian may not understand my references. Having lived in California I can compare the distinctions. In sum, take what I write with a sense of humor. However, a bit of truth may lie somewhere beneath the veneer. Amid my writings I come in peace. Peace, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:49:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Aikido in Military From:Gary Pieratt <> From: Mac <> From: Rob "Young Eun" Frankovich <> Sorry Rob, I wasn't sure how to make that toung-in-cheek emoticon :-p You may have taken me seriously. But while we are on the subject, maybe the military should teach that kick-butt style stuff that I see Chuck Norris doing on his TV show - called "Tang Sue Doe" or something like that - yea! that's the ticket - they should be taught Tang Sue Doe!! Heck, Chuck seldom draws his gun when confronting the bad guys, he just uses that Tang Sue Doe and saves the bullets! :-) BTW, did you ever train in TaeKwonDo in '76 in Pasadena Texas? There were some "Frankovich" brothers that were training at my dojang at the time and I wasn't sure if you might be one of them. McH... ------------------------------ From: "Phil" Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:45:59 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: re-discovering TKD >> I started TKD in 1969 at a very young age and using the block as a strike is >> exactly how we were taught back then. Every block was meant to be an >> attack. Master Y.J. Chung used to say that you punish your opponent with >> your block to the point that he hesitates when he throws a punch or kick >> because he knows what is going to happen when he does, and then you finish >> him off. >That is part of it. But knowing exactly what point(s) on their body to >strike with your block and at what angle to strike is the rest of it. I >suspect that little of that knowledge became part of TKD. But then what >do I know... >Ray Terry I was taught to strike the attacking limb with such force, as to break the arm or leg. Right.... maybe the arm, if you know what you are doing. But, breaking the leg with down block, using the smallest bone in the arm. Sorry, odds are you are the one that is injured. As far as knowing what points to hit and how the body will react to a given strike.....that coincidently puts your attacker in position for the next technique in the form, well thats were the re-discovering part come in. If there is anyone on this same path or knows what I'm talking about, please e-mail. Thanks Phil ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Writings of Professor B; Mr. Pieratt Mr. Pieratt noted: > I don't enjoy his writing. Gary Pieratt> Response: Please do not take this personally. However, I think it is important that you permit an individual to articulate his position. If you permit yourself to censor opinions which are not vulgar you run the risk of narrow results. I recall another list where I pontificated about several training modalities. I injected humor. The moderator took great umbrage on my approach and had his supporters sandbag me. I felt the sting. To be honest I did not like the feeling. Therefore, I support the expression of divergent views. Think about it objectively. Professor B has got many of you to react and write about your feelings. This is what this forum is all about. There are several high ranking individuals on this list who are unable to write their true expressions based on their positions. Let others, like Professor B, or you, or me fan the flames. I recently visited the Holocaust Museum in Washington,DC. I recall one picture where the Nazis held a book burning ceremony in Germany. Censorship reared its ugly head. I may not agree with everyone on this list. I have a weird sense of humor, and I often digress. But I appreciate the friends I have made on the respective lists. Off the soap box. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Dave Wilson" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:29:40 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Aikido in the Marine Corp Richard Strozzi Heckler along with a Marine Colonel (IIRC) is running the program. In 1985 Heckler participated in a classified Army project called "The Trojan Warrior Project". After declassification - he wrote a book "In Search of the Warrior Spirit" which was about his experiences "Teaching Awareness Disciplines to the Green Berets". Heckler is a Psychologist, a former Marine and a former Olympic class athlete (in running IIRC). Me thinks he will be teaching more than martial arts techniques to our Marines. I for one am proud that our Marines are taking this initiative and look forward to hearing about the results. Semper Fi ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:06:25 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: re-discovering TKD > If there is anyone on this same path or knows what I'm talking about, please > e-mail. Thanks Obviously. Been there, done that. Well, not really a re-discovery so much as learning the concepts of some different arts. [off tangent comment follows] Have folks noticed the way aspects of some arts seem to suddenly appear in other arts when they weren't there 20 or 30 or 50 years ago? e.g I've seen folks go off and learn Eskrima and then all of a sudden it turns out that these skills were -always- a part of Taekwondo or [insert-art-here]. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Tan, Andrew" Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:44:01 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: FORM videos MPEG format All Taegeuk plus more can be found here: http://www.onmousego.com.au/taekwondo/basics.html ~ANDREW TAN~ ------------------------------ From: "Daniel G." Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:37:57 EDT Subject: the_dojang: enlightened marines >Yes, we are in big trouble if our military is going to start using Aikido. >Gary Pieratt I'll say. Can you imagine Marines learning to avoid conflict & injure attackers as little as possible? What's wrong with this picture? ~Daniel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Smith Gordon SSgt 752MUNSS/SFO Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:14:48 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Aikido in the military "Penetrating so many secrets, we cease to believe in the unknowable. But there it sits nevertheless, calmly licking it's chop." - --H.L. Mencken-- I know there are other's out there like me who eat, drink, and sleep martial arts. Not just Korean arts, but all martial arts. Every since "Above the Law" I have been researching everything I could get my hands on about Aikido. I'm a "Show me the money" type of guy which took me on a journey to find out if Aikido was really as effective as "Nico" had shown us, because if it was I wanted to get some of that. For several years I was getting pretty disappointed. I couldn't find any Aikidoka who kicked-butt like "Nico". I served one year in Korea (trained in Tang Soo Do) and four years in Tokyo, Japan (oddly enough trained in Kung Fu...Deployed too much to make a commitment to Aikido). My wife is from Tokyo. We live in Holland now, but returned this past July for a well deserved vacation. I had the honor of visiting the Aikido Hombu Dojo (Aikido World Headquarters) in 17-18 Wakamatsu-Cho, Shinjuku-Ku, Tokyo and was allowed to observe a night class. Observing that class forever changed my "Aikido" view. I observed attacks from all angles and not just the "sword-like" overhead strike attacks as seen in demonstrations. We all know that when you demonstrate techniques to the public you have to open them up a little so that the technique can be seen. How many of you out there would attempt an "ancient" flying kick (designed to kick an adversary off of a horse) on a street thug? For those out there who doubt the effectiveness of true Aikido I recommend that you watch "Aikido--The Path Beyond Thought." This is a video about the life of Steven Segal. It is not a movie...It shows Steven Segal (Take Sensei) teaching seminars, taking exams, giving exams, etc... It has interview's with his long time students and never seen before footage of him training in Japan in the 70's and 80's. After watching this I wouldn't want to take Ukemi from the man. The best way to describe the video is a quote from one of his students; "I sent a few of my students to his seminar and they returned both excited and concerned. They said he basically slammed this poor guy all over the dojo and damn near killed the man." I ordered the video from (Steven Segal.com). Han... SunBiNim, Gordon2-sends... 1st Dan Han Mu Do ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 03:17:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Seminar - Humble Texas CARLOS MACHADO will conduct a high-intensity, two day Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu seminar in Humble, Texas (just north of Houston) on Saturday & Sunday, October 28th & 29th, 2000. Mr. Machado brings you literally a lifetime of experience in this interesting martial art. Super-charge your groundfighting skills. Meet new people and have fun in a friendly atmosphere of mutual learning and respect. Students from all styles and levels are welcome. Space is limited, so please call the seminar host, Mr. Alvis Solis at 281-540-8443 today! Solis Martial Arts Academy 281-540-8443 1420 FM 1960 E Bypass #119 Humble, Texas 77338 Email: SolisMAI@aol.com Time: 12:00 - 4:00pm both days At the end of the seminar there will be an informal question and answer session where Mr. Machado will answer questions on current trends in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, training diets, conditioning tips, recent advances in technique, and any other topics the participants wish to learn more about. A clickable location map, plus detailed driving directions are located on the seminar web pages at: http://www.carlosmachado.com/seminars Thanks You and I hope to see you there! John Bennett ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:29:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Marine MA Ray and others, When I first read you post, I wondered if it was Richard Heckler involved. Thanks to Jon, I was able to read the article and found out the 5th degree Aikidoist was Heckler. Before one should dismiss this entirely, you should take a look at "In Search of the Warrior Spirit: Teaching Awareness Disciplines to the Green Berets" by Richard Strozzi Heckler. It has been a few years since I read this, but it was an interesting read. It brought up some issues that deserve being looked at, and I think those in the program benefited. There is more to learn than just the quickest and most efficient way to hurt or kill someone. In fact, Heckler, being a "peace" kind of person, had trouble with himself having to teach the "trained killers" in SF. It was good that he wrote of his coming to understand soldiers better as well. Again, it's been a bit since I read this book. But sometimes there is more to something than we see at first..... Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:09:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: GM Han GM WEST: "PS.... Master Han is rapidly approaching 70 and can STILL go, and my hat's off to him.....J. R." Trying to catch up on a few posts this morning, and this was one I wanted to comment on. I had the pleasure of getting to meet GM Han this last summer and to attend a class he was teaching. We wondered what his age was, and knew he had to be somewhere in his 60s, and yes at that age he is still very impressive! Alain ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Writings of Professor B; the issue Donna: The issue is that several individuals have asked Professor B to articulate his background on numerous occasions. This results since the Professor has repeatedly indicated that the current martial arts are prostituted versions of yesterday since a retreat from the "Basics" has occurred. Of course writing that would elicit a harsh rebuttal since many seasoned and honorable practitioners strive to impart the basics in their respective arts. Also the Professor has indicated that he has had numerous meetings with highly regarded individuals. When called on to expand his meetings and knowledge this results in a non-response. This non-response then elicits further inquiries on the Professor's background. I take no position but feel that people are entitled to voice their positions. They should also attempt to articulate an appropriate answer to a legitimate inquiry--time permitting. That is the quintessential issue on this matter. No negative comments directed to you, Professor, if you are reading this. McD... > Was there something I missed? Someone who does not enjoy the Professor's > writings? > On the contrary. I enjoy them a lot. They are truthful. Some people do > not like the > truth when it rears it's ugly head. I have a lot of respect for "b". He'd > rather have > cake w/o the frosting so to speak. It is just there. Plain and simple. No > icing. > Donna > > Once we discover a common ground, the walls of difference begin to fall. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:39:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Late ATA President, Lee, Hang Woong Here's an interesting article from a Korean National perspective: 'Frank and Humble', Close look at Lee, Hang Woong -Kim, Joon-Sung(2000/10/09) President Lee, Hang Woong was 'humble but young, dreaming Taekwondo man' when we take a close look at him. Korean Taekwondo authorities would say 'he commercialized Taekwondo too much' and wouldn't think of him as good. However, from a slightly different perspective, the Korean Taekwondo society caused problems, too, because it 'failed to commercialize Taekwondo.' In this vein, Koreans are too stingy to give positive evaluation to president Lee, Hang Woong. Anyway, president Lee, Hang Woong has left this world. This writing is recollection of personal aspects of the late. So this may be rather subjective. I saw him twice in USA and three times in Korea; when I saw him in USA, I had some opportunities to talk with him for some time. When I first saw him, he used to deplored over the Korean Taekwondo reality, and explained his idea for Taekwondo growth. He named his idea as the '2nd Taekwondo globalization,' which was very interesting and meaningful. So far, Taekwondo globalization was done in a natural and gradual way without any special policy. But his idea is that Kukkiwon should take the job and get it on the road in a organized and systematic way. Since he had been successful in organization and development of ATA over the last 30 years, he was so confident about his idea. At first, he looked like an ambitious person who could sometimes say a joke, but I found him very humble. Sometimes he looked like a little kid, and he was not like a big boss of the huge organization of 200 thousand membership. One day I had dinner with him in his main place Little Rock, Arkansas, USA. He ordered 'Jampong (Chinese food)', and said, "This is great, isn't it?" In one restaurant, he grilled and seasoned a steak by himself, and at this moment, he was just like an old man living in countryside. He drove the way to the restaurant. So I asked, "Why don't you hire some driver?" "I'm this healthy, and why do I make others drive?" he said. When I saw him in Las Vegas back in March, I closed my notebook, and had some light talk with him. He also asked me some private questions, and I gave him some personal questions, too. The stories that I heard at the times were not the ones that he could share with others easily. How hard he was in his childhood; he could trust on his fists only; he went over the hill during the service in Paenyeongdo; his divorce and kids from ex-wife. He got Special Award in KBS Koreans-Abroad Awards, became the hero of MBC documentary called 'Age of Success,' and is widely known as Clinton's master. Nevertheless, he was only a simple person. He could hide his past, but he didn't. He was not reluctant to talk about his dark days. He was such a frank person, too. He didn't try to beautify his desire or greed. He didn't adopt pretty words like Taekwondo growth or patriotism to describe his dream. Last year, Kim, Un Yong, president of Kukkiwon, was supposed to nominate him for the vice-president. When he was informed of this, he had great expectation. He didn't hide his feeling. In a word, he didn't know how to control his expressions on his face. When Kim, Un Yong's words turned out to be nothing, though, disappointment on his face was just the way he felt. He didn't know how to disguise. We can't talk about him without remarking about his basic attitudes such as doing on his own initiatives, and responsibility to his students. I witnessed this in the ATA headquarter school, Little Rock. ATA Master education course was going on. I heard that they were taking some morning work-outs, and I went out to see them. Then there was happening a really surprising thing. It was the thing that I could never see in Korea. Mr. Lee, Hang Woong was teaching his students by himself in uniform. Since he, born in 1936, took rather a 'high' position of the huge organization, he would be expected to sit in the back and take care of administrative things, but he didn't. He rather suggested that students practice fist thrust (Jireugi) 2 thousand times since it was the first education of the year 2000. Then he was executing fist thrusts 2 thousand times by himself! Only one thing occurred to my mind. That's how those students are willing to follow and respect him. I saw another impressive scene during 2000 ATA Spring National Championships held in Las Vegas back in March. When the opening ceremony was over, a great number of kids rushed up to the stage to get his autograph. The line was endless, and he kept writing his autographs, sometimes swinging his arm as if it hurt. Because of this, he missed the lunch time, and he wasn't able to have lunch until 3 p.m.. But this was not the end. When he appeared in the arena again, people began to line up. He was writing autographs on the same spot until all the games were done. Asked if he was not tired, he said, "Kids flew from far east to this far west to get my autograph. How can I ignore them because I am a little tired?" He is now away from this world now, but such things he showed will remain in the hearts of ATA members and Taekwondo people he loved. May he rest in peace. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Basics..food...culture vs physiology Response: A reasonable question. I looked up physiological to ensure that we are on the same wavelength,re: "The scientific study of essential and typical life processes, activities, and functions. The vital processes and functions of an organism." Do you really mean "Physical...of or relating to the body rather than the emotions or mind." Analysis: Based on your definition I would state that cultural, physical and mental are all intertwined. You could separate the basics and simply apply a basic stance of a particular art from a robotic point of view. Certainly a new student learns the basic stances, blocks, sparring techniques from a physical point of view. Thereafter, if you become "deep" into your art and make it a part of you, I would imagine that the definitive mental or spiritual side of the art evolves. If you are a venerable Hapkidoist, for example, I believe you reach a certain level where the nuances of the art would evolve. You would become more mentally invovled in the process of motion for example. I am not at that level but have read others' writings who are, and that is what I observe. As in anything else, the more you become involved into a certain area the more deeply you become involved in the culture and historical reference points. This is why many committed martial artists would take treks to the country that their art originated in. Yes you can separate physical from mental, but do you want to? An analogy is my 57 Chevy. Now you may not know this but that 283 engine also came with a powerpack option changing the horsepower from 195 to 225. One way of determining that is the fuel lines running along the outside rails of the frame. Ah, some would say that is an insignificant point. Others who own a 57 Chevy would say that is important for resale value. Who is right ? McD... - --- d vaillancourt wrote: > Ken. > My question... Do you really > feel > the "basics" are tied to culture or are more physiological? > > Dana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 7:36:56 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #657 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.