From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #663 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 14 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 663 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #660 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #661 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 the_dojang: Re: Mr. Beck's Ruminations the_dojang: Front Stance the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #661 the_dojang: New KTA president the_dojang: Help with Sparring. the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:42:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #660 "AKIDO - With all the Akido messages, I wanted to put a question to the list. It is my understanding that Takeda style aki jujitsu from which hapkido and akido descend was originally derived from Korean practices. Has anyone else run into this claim ? Anyone have references on the subject ?" Dear Mr Gordon: I have to be careful about those things. I certainly didn't mean to put Mr Seagal and Mr Van Damme in the same class, only in the same sentence. You certainly picked-up on the real point I was trying make and that was to showcase the difference in reputations various accomplished members of the MA have developed. Actually the real reason I was responding was for the benefit of Mr. Weissler who raised a time-worn nugget about the origins of Hapkido and Aikido as it relates to OS Takedas' Daito-ryu Aiki-jujitsu. There are some things that just refuse to die out and those beliefs are always guarenteed to get a real pot-boiler going on these discussion Nets. Joel, the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, will probably be solved long before we ever sort out who did what and to whom in the culture development between the Japanese and the Koreans. Despite strong protests to the contrary, the Japanese culture did not originate the long line of Martial traditions attributed to them. They did, however, put their own unique cultural and biomechanical spin on them. This is the very same things the Koreans, Chinese and every other culture in the world has done. OS Takedas' Daito-ryu has not been sufficiently documented to be a direct revivification of the original MA compendium of arts associated with the Aizu clan. Nor has it been documented that Daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu was more than one of a number of arts (albeit the most influential) that OS Ueshiba studied and incorporated into the art we now call Aikido. The same holds true for what we now call Hapkido. The art whose name is traditionally ascribed to GM Ji was around a lot earlier than GM Choi, nor was he the only one to have incorporated Japanese techniques into the extant Korean system to produce a curriculum. Even one of his first students (GM Bok-sub Suh) began training with him having first earned a few ranks in Judo first --- without having left Korea. It is a tradition to ascribe the start of Hapkido to GM Choi, but it is a convenience that can be said to do a dis-service to the other Korean masters who were not as well publicized. Now, I said all of that to say this. Another historical and cultural convenience is to pretend that all MA traditions of the modern era flow from Japan through other countries to the rest of the world. This is where we get into your statement. Archeological excavations, and modern research has demonstrated repeatedly that this just isn't so. However, if one were to introduce alternate lines of thought in this matter, say in the matter of Hapkido development, what do you think would happen to all those heads of the various Hapkido organizations who base their authority strictly on their relationship to GM Choi? You are certainly free to pursue this line of thought, Joel-- I have. Just be prepared to experience a tidal wave of objection from people who like their truths just the way they are. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Alanis0811@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:59:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 and yes, i love stabbing westward....... try the new rage against machine for some good workout music, or perhaps some chemical bros. or prodigy we use them in our studio and in forms competitions. Tang Soo, Jenn :) ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:01:20 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #661 What relation is Songahm Taekwondo to Taekwon-Do. I have heard of the ATA, and WTTU I am interested in where the came from. John Murphy A-3-756 Songahm (not ham) taekwondo is the system taught by the American Taekwondo Association (ATA) and its international branches - the WTTU (World Traditional Taekwondo Union) and the STF (Songahm Taekwondo Federation). The forms were developed by Grand Master H. U. Lee (who just last week passed away - - - I hope you are in a better place sir), and there are 18 forms total in the entire system. Brad Bezoni 2nd Degree Black Belt - ATA ------------------------------ From: LJSFLEM@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:04:13 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 In a message dated 10/14/00 12:02:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Fair Lawn, NJ= >> Sorry, but I didn't know Sheila. Have you lurked around on classmates.com or the Fair Lawn alumni site to see what she is doing now? Fair Lawn used to burn Reggie Ridgewood. Lodi is my neighboring town. I have great difficulty as an older white woman (just celebrated 50) trying to do any kind of jump kicks. These old feet don't want to leave the ground. I just keep on trying. My brother, also a martial artist is so flexible that it amazes me. He does some remarkable things with Qi gong. (i hope i spelled that correctly). Peace. Lorr ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:13:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #662 Well you have to condition your hands. Time to start hitting the bricks. John Murphy A-3-756 Well, I tried to block like that except it was closed-fist, not knife-hand, and I got a broken hand for my troubles. :-( It was only a small chip fracture, but it really isn't pleasant to hear your own bones make that crunching noise. I would recommend that technique in a practical situation for a person with really beefy hands. Jane ------------------------------ From: William Upton-Knittle Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:42:41 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mr. Beck's Ruminations At 05:31 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote: >As far as 'all stances are based on the horse stance', on the face of it >this is nonsense. Sorry....this is the stance upon which all others are based. Get into a horse stance (assuming you've been properly taught it's basics. If you turn both feet 45 degrees in the same direction you will be in a perfect front stance; if you turn one foot 90 degrees you will be in a perfect back stance..............etc. This is one of the basics. Originally, all students were made to stand in this stance until one (sometimes 2) dropped out. After all, when done correctly with toes pointed forward knees properly bent in and then bowed out and the butt kept in and under a lot of energy is used and one can tire quickly. When you learn this basic stance as the first thing when you begin your studies.....and you are kept at that for several weeks, believe me, you will NEVER have to give a thought as to how to get into it (or those based on it) when needed. >The thing is, he's not following up and explaining himself in any meaningful >way. There was no response to my post on the outward wrist twist technique >done full speed where the thrown person must do an ADVANCED fall or risk a >break, so just knowing the BASICs isn't enough for 'NO DANGER'. There was >no response on 'incorrect' attacks. Actually, I DID respond to those....hmmm...come to think of it I'm not sure I saw them posted later myself. Perhaps some are not getting through. b ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:10:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Front Stance Good description, Dave. That is about the same as I learned/teach. However, it's different in ITF, different in karate, heck, different in fencing and yoga. Hard to say it's right or wrong, just consistent. Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:18:57 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #661 In a message dated 10/13/00 12:18:50 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Those that use some of the more complex skills, like in the aikido based systems, are excellent for agencies and persons who actually take the time to practice on a regular basis. Physical skills deteriorate with the passing of time. Fine skills deteriorate even faster. KM, Spear, scars, TNT, etc do not have skills that would take forever to master or even get good at. >> I'm a black belt in taekwondo and hapkido and I also train and teach SCARS techniques. What I like about SCARS is the offensive nature of the program and that the techniques are LOW maintenance. Learn the techniques once, practice a few time, and you have them for life. Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 7:15:56 PDT Subject: the_dojang: New KTA president FYI, I understand that the new president of the KTA (Korea Taekwondo Association) is Yong Woo Lee. The officers of the Kukkiwon should be chaning soon... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Carmelo Gauci" Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:48:22 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Help with Sparring. Hi all, I wonder if anybody could give me some advice here. I would like to start training for sparring WTF style. I would like to know how I should prepare myself diet wise, and physically wise. Any sort of help will be highly appreciated. Thanks, Carmelo Gauci. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 7:37:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #663 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.