From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #664 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 14 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 664 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Help with Sparring the_dojang: Replies. the_dojang: Resending second e-mail. the_dojang: Re: P'ungwolto ('way of wind and moon') the_dojang: Re: A personal history of Hwarang Do the_dojang: Re: hwarangdo etc the_dojang: Will the real Pratt please stand up :-) Re: the_dojang: Re: hwarangdo etc the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:42:45 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Help with Sparring << I wonder if anybody could give me some advice here. I would like to start training for sparring WTF style. I would like to know how I should prepare myself diet wise, and physically wise. Any sort of help will be highly appreciated. >> First things first -- find a good coach who is knowledgeable in Olympic-style sparring. Failing that, try the Han Won Lee videos which will give you basic information about training in this style. Diet-wise, eat healthy. Find your comfortably healthy weight, match it with a weight division, and you should be able to maintain within the weight division by eating a moderate, balanced diet. Physically, train, train, train and spar, spar, spar. Run, do plyos, practice individual kicks, practice combinations, practice hogu drills. The best way to learn it is to do it, so find a tournament and compete. Good luck. Sally SallyBaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Debbie Eidelman Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Replies. Hello. I sent this out a few days ago and was wondering why it didn't post... today someone asked me why I hadn't replied to them... it turns out my e-mails have not been getting out, so I'm telnetting until I figure out what is going on with Outlook. So here it is again :) - -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Eidelman [mailto:eidelman@ufl.edu] Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 11:36 AM To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Karate Music and Songahm Taekwondo. Hello all! THANK YOU for your suggestions, I'm going to wade through all the songs during the next two weeks (the slide show is in mid-December). I really appreciate all the suggestions. The hard vs soft upbeat music is right, and two that I'm using (thanks to you) is The KarateKid's You're The Best Around (soft) and Mortal Kombat's Theme (hard). I love changing moods like that. Again, thank you for responding. I feel bad about not responding to other people's questions, but 80% of the time I have no idea what you are all talking about since all I know about is my style :) (and Shotokan... I took it for 2.5 years and got to 1st kyu). Songahm Taekwondo is the style adapted by late GrandMaster H.U. Lee around the 70's. We don't to the WTF forms, we do Songahm 1, Songahm 2, Songahm 3, Songahm 4, Songahm 5, Inwa 1, Inwa 2, Choon Jung 1, Choon Jung 2, etc. Our governing body is the ATA, the American Taekwondo Association, which is synonymous with Songahm Taekwondo. Check out www.ataonline.com. As with other Taekwondo styles, kicks are emphasized. We do sparring, board breaking, groundfighting, forms, weapons, pressure points, and self-defense techniques, among others. Pretty much late GM Lee started Songahm Taekwondo as a related style of Taekwondo because he had visions to enhance the art of Taekwondo. Now the ATA is THE largest Martial Arts organization in the world. There's affiliates in South America. You can train at ANY ATA academy while you are vacationing or if you move, and it's emphasized that we are all a big family. Sparring is just about having fun, not about bruising your opponent, etc. Thanks, Debbie :) - --- Debbie Eidelman, MPH Student Department of Health Science Education University of Florida http://grove.ufl.edu/~eidelman eidelman@ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: Debbie Eidelman Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Resending second e-mail. - -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Eidelman [mailto:eidelman@ufl.edu] Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 1:54 PM To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #661 Mr. Benzoi: Aagh! Fever!!! I used to be a Country Junkie to the T (minus the clothes and hat). I LOVED that song and it WOULD be great for the slide show... time to dust off my country CDs. Thanks, Debbie :) P.S. It's funny how I got de-country'd. I got to the U.S. in 1990 and from then to this year only listened to country. Then I did a mix CD for our kickboxing prof with songs she wanted and ended up being exposed to pop and a whole lot other stuff and loved all of it (and was an Eminem junkie for awhile but I'm over that now :) Now I listen to almost anything (there will NEVER be space for classical, jazz, and blues). It's also funny that I started hearing this song "It's my Life" and LOVED it. Then one day the DJ said we got Bon Jovi coming next and I said oh no I hate that guy and guess what he was singing... It's My Life!! I never thought I would be a Bon Jovi fan. I shall never judge again! Debbie :) - --- Debbie Eidelman, MPH Student Department of Health Science Education University of Florida http://grove.ufl.edu/~eidelman eidelman@ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: P'ungwolto ('way of wind and moon') Text on the Hwarang organisation: >Their ideal was called p'ungwolto ('way of wind and moon'), the >original meaning of which is not clear. Me: >>Well, it's not clear if you read it in the modern translation, but of course you have to read it as they did a thousand years ago, then the meaning is very clear. You can read Professor Peter H. Lee's explanation at http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang2.htm#terms<< S. H. Wee: >>I do not know much about Hwarang. However, looking at the Chinese characters of P'ungwolto, it is the same words that were widely used by ancient Chinese scholars to describe their favorite recreation -- Drinking, womanizing and poetry writing. << Me again: Yes, it all depends what we call ancient :-) Short version: "P'ungnyu (chinese: feng-liu) is a prize specimen in the cabinet of untranslatable critical terms which enjoyed a vogue in medieval China. The term appears generally in the preface or critical estimate of the ancient Chinese book "Hou Han Shu" (History of the Tree Kingdoms, compiled by Ch'en Shou (233-297)) in the classical sense of "moral influence", "customs and manners", or "vestiges of customs". (...) From the Chinese Three Kingdoms period, it began to lose its political and moralistic connotations and became related to individual character. Under the Chin dynasty, it definitely became a fashionable term for that which demanded one's respect or attracted the attention of one's contemporaries. (P'ungwolchu and Pungwol are other ways of writing P'ungnyu and thus have the same meaning.)" Peter H. Lee: The Lives of Eminent Korean Monks, the Haedong Kosun Chon, p.67-68.) Full text on my page. So the "Hwarang P'ungwolto" is different from the later connotations. >>And the Chinese Characters of Hwarang were used to refer to scholars who like to have funs. Though I am not sure whether they carry the same meanings in korean.<< The 'Rang/Lang' character was originally used for "court attendants from various sources including sons of eminent officials, men specially recommended by regional and local authorities, experienced officials awaiting reappointment" but unfortunately nobody knows for sure what 'Hwarang' REALLY means. It IS possible that the Chinese characters just represents the pronunciation of an ancient, now forgotten Silla word. There were no written 'Korean' language back then, so they often used the sound of the Chinese characters to write native 'Korean' words. Parts of modern Korean translations of the Samguk Sagi history book is normally left in Chinese characters because nobody can translate them to modern Korean... >Sincerely, >S. H. Wee Oh, where in Malaysia do you live? Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: A personal history of Hwarang Do ? wrote: >>Check out this page on Hwarangdo and Joo Bang Lee, click the Blue hyper link at the bottom of the page for "A Personal History by Bob Duggan" << It's funny how the internet works, in the beginning when there were very little information on Hwarang Do out there, people could just write anything they wanted and everybody else believed them. Now more and more information is coming out there and it all comes back to bite them in the as*. Just one example from the "history" page mentioned above: when Bobby wrote that GM Lee founded Hwarang Do after he came to America, a lot of people believed him. - Now you could, for instance, look at any of the photos from the late 60ies in Black Belt Magazine or on hwarangdo.com and see GM Lee wearing a Hwarang Do patch back then in Korea - what does that tell you? Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: hwarangdo etc >>From what I understand, both Lee, Joo Bang & Suh, In Hyuk studied under Choi, Yong Sul.<< I don't think anybody is saying that GM Suh trained under GM Choi? >>Also, Hwa Rang Do's organization (the World Hwa Rang Do Association) is based in California, if I recall correctly. I have never heard of it having another organization anywhere else. Is the Kidohae in fact "in charge" of Hwa Rang Do, at least in Korea?<< That's true, the World Hwarang Do Association is the only Hwarang Do organization, for instance Denmark is World Hwarang Do Association Denmark. The Modern Kido Hwe has no authority over Hwarang Do what so ever and is, of course, not in charge of Hwarang Do. That goes for Korea, USA and the rest of the world. If anybody tells you that he has a Hwarang Do degree from the Kido Hwe he's a fake. Hwarang Do was one of the founding styles behind the original organization though. That's probably why the name is used as one of the member styles. Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Danmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Carsten Jorgensen Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Will the real Pratt please stand up :-) Me, talking about the Hwarang: >>See the original quote below, this is where the information in Pratt and Rutt's book comes from.<< Andrew: >>Just want to make it clear that I do not think Carsten is referring to me here. There is, believe it or not, another Pratt in Korean studies. Keith Pratt is at Durham and lectures on Korean music and is no relation.<< My apologies to Andrew if anybody thought I was referring to him - I wasn't. Actually I usually agrees with him :-) >>was referring to the Hwarang, and during a recent trip to Korea, I observed such a "uniform" on display at either the "War Museum" in Seoul, or at the museum at "Independence Hall" in Ch'onan, and this uniform belonged to a Silla warrior member of this group...... J. R. West << Andrew: >>To which one can only ask: Where did the "uniform" come from given that (AFAIK, perhaps Carsten can confirm or deny) neither the Samguk Yusa nor Samguk Yoksa contain a description of Hwarang uniform and no paintings remain of people dressed in Hwarang "uniforms" and no graves have been found containing preserved Hwarang "uniforms"??<< There are actually a couple of drawings on the Ch'onchon-ri Rock between Kyongju and Ulsan that quite possible depicts Hwarang (look at www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang.htm :-) But I don't think they wore clothes different from the other Silla nobility (the rules were too strict). My guess is that the uniform comes from textual descriptions of Silla clothes (there are quite a few of those). I'll be in Singapore and Malaysia for the next three weeks so next post will be a while. Carsten Jorgensen Copenhagen, Denmark hwarangdo@email.com - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:44:31 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: hwarangdo etc >>From what I understand, both Lee, Joo Bang & Suh, In Hyuk studied under >>Choi, Yong Sul. > > I don't think anybody is saying that GM Suh trained under GM Choi? In a recent interview with JB Lee in Black Belt he mentions that he, his brother JS Lee, and Han-jae Ji were all promoted to 8th Dan by Yong-sul Choi in 1968. (The same year GM Choi first began to use the name Hapkido.) Lee seems to infer that Suh studied under Choi, but it isn't clearly stated. He says that Suh's influence was yu sool (GM Choi's yu sool?) and Ship Pal Gi (Korean Kung Fu). Also of interest is the point where he indicates that he, JB Lee, was one of the original founders of the Kuk Sool Hoi. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:48:55 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #664 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.