From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #667 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 16 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 667 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #665 the_dojang: Speaking of injuries...has this happened to anyone before? the_dojang: Front Stance the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #664 the_dojang: 'b' and stances the_dojang: Collapsing during workouts the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dominic Mitchell Date: 15 Oct 2000 23:41:25 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #665 Thanks for your advice, I may consider this option as the last one. The fungus I had had was very sever. From the start, I am really sensitive to these types of infections. I like to train with shoes. I know that if I wet the soles then they really stick to the ground. But it does not last very long as as soon as it is dry the the sticky effect is lost. Someone told to clean the soles with a product like "Fantastic" ( an all purpose cleaner ) with a brush. This did not solve the problem. Thanks for your suggestions anyhow, Dominic. ------------------------------ From: "Udell Holmes II" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:28:59 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Speaking of injuries...has this happened to anyone before? Ok, first of, this was all my fault. I went to a competition and sparred without taking my gear. I forgot my gear in Cleveland (3 1/2 hours away from the tournament in Belle Vernon, PA) so I had to borrow someone else's. Needless to say I neglected to get shin guards. And so my pitiful story begins.... I ended up winning my division, but in attempting a swing kick, my 250+ pound (no joke) opponent (sp?) stepped forward and blocked me with his shin. He had guards. I didn't, and I'll never compete without shin guards again (I didn't want to spectate during my first tournament experience). Long story short, my doctor told me their is some sort of "package" that covers the muscles in the calf. Just like saran wrap when you buy meat at the grocey store. I must have ruptured the "saran wrap" from the compression of the blow (I was kicking REALLY hard) and had some internal bleeding (I had VERY slight swelling...but a whole lotta pain). Description: I knew it wasn't muscular from the type of pain I was having...All I had to do was lay down a certain way and I had the most excruciating SHARP pain..definately not musclular. OK, end of long story: I've been following the TKD teachings since June of 2000. I love it, and I'm eager to start training again. Has anyone ever experienced an injury like this, and is my slow recovery "normal", and should I be worried about long term effects?!?! The injury happened on Sep 30th. I don't need crutches anymore, and it IS healing, but I still cant "squat" without some pain. Thanks, Udell Holmes II ------------------------------ From: "Farral, Kim G" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:09:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Front Stance Have to agree with you Rudy on all reasoning with the front stance...Turning your back foot forward (parallel to the front foot so all ten toes point forward) also keeps your shoulders square firming up a strong stance... As was recently pointed out by a 5th Dan and acknowledged as correct by two 8th Dan Korean GMs...pointing the back foot out or at a 45 degree angle is a Japanese stance (something of which I was unaware)...10 toes forward is a Korean stance...any comments on this from our post historians? The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:24:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #664 "It's funny how the internet works, in the beginning when there were very little information on Hwarang Do out there, people could just write anything they wanted and everybody else believed them. Now more and more information is coming out there and it all comes back to bite them in the as*." Dear Mr. Jorgensen: I know what you mean about getting bitten on the backside. And, of course, that goes for a lot of the GM who must now back-off of the more romantic versions of their arts' development. You are absolutely right about the power of the Internet and how it has opened considerable information to individuals who formerly had to depend of their teachers and instructors as the sole source of information regarding their art. The three-part series in BLACK BELT Magazine (vols #38, #9, 10, 11-Sept, Oct, Nov) has a number of "adjustments" with perhaps the most telling being the story of the transmission of Korean Mudo per GM Lee. All three of his books (THE ANCIENT ART OF HWA RANG DO; Ohara Publ 1979) suggest a very clear linear relationship between the Mudo practiced by the "Hwa Rang warriors" and that which GM Lee claimed to have been taught of Su-Ahm Dosa ("...57th generation heir (sic).."). The interview, for its part has GM Lee taking special pains to delineate between what he was taught in Korea ("um-yang kwon") and what he organized both in Korea and later to a greater degree here in the States. I mention this only because I think, perhaps this heralds a period of better understanding of the organization and development of the Korean arts once we get shed of the all the romantic rhetoric that has held practitioners captive for years. (Now if we could just do something for the Chinese about all the Shaolin Temple garbage......) Along these lines is also the very fluid way in which individuals ascribe themselves to various teachers. That a great number of individuals studied WITH GM Choi, including GM Lee, GM Ji, GM Suh and many others is hardly in dispute. The interesting point, to my mind, is how few remained with their original teachers. Almost without exception each of the individuals I am citing went visiting other schools and arts. I suspect this would be the pre-Internet equivalent of MA book-collecting so many of us do today. However, when it comes time to declare an affiliation there is considerable latitude. GM Lee affiliates with Su-Ahm Dosa, GM Ji with GM Choi and honestly I am not sure who GM Suh claims as his main teacher. There is just one point that I find disconcerting and I raise it here only because of the reference to 8th Degree BB ("8th Dan") in the previous correspondence. Much has been made of the connection between GM Choi and the Daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu which he is reported to have mastered. If that is true, and he studied no other art to confound things, why would GM Choi be awarding an "8th Dan" for an art for which there was no 8th Dan either at the time of his instruction or since? I hear acquaintances in Daito-ryu reference a variety of certificates and licenses but not much is said about Dan ranks. Was this another innovation courtesy of GM Ji? Perhaps this is another development whose origins will be obfuscated by inconsistencies of language, translation, culture, history and time. (BTW: Does anyone else ever wonder that these various factors I have mentioned here only seem to work in favor of supporting organizational positions? Curious, yes? ) Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:10:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: 'b' and stances >------------------------------ > >From: William Upton-Knittle >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:42:41 -0700 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mr. Beck's Ruminations > >At 05:31 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote: >>As far as 'all stances are based on the horse stance', on the face of it >>this is nonsense. > >Sorry....this is the stance upon which all others are based. Get into a >horse stance (assuming you've been properly taught it's basics. If you turn >both feet 45 degrees in the same direction you will be in a perfect front >stance; if you turn one foot 90 degrees you will be in a perfect back >stance..............etc. This is one of the basics. Originally, all >students were made to stand in this stance until one (sometimes 2) dropped >out. After all, when done correctly with toes pointed forward knees >properly bent in and then bowed out and the butt kept in and under a lot of >energy is used and one can tire quickly. When you learn this basic stance >as the first thing when you begin your studies.....and you are kept at that >for several weeks, believe me, you will NEVER have to give a thought as to >how to get into it (or those based on it) when needed. Yes, *with the proper weight shift*, this is correct for horse stance to front stance and horse stance to back stance. You COULD consider front stance and back stance based on horse stance from that viewpoint, even with the weight distribution, feet facing, and chest facing differences. Where I take issue is with saying ALL stances are based on horse stance. How can the crane stance or cat stance *possibly* be construed to come from horse stance? Please explain or retract the 'all'. And if you responded on the other posts they never showed up in the digest. Perhaps you sent them to an aikido list instead? David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: "Elizabeth (Libby) Wiebel" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Collapsing during workouts Hello all! I know that the most of us are not physicians, but I thought I'd ask my question here anyway, as I'm getting very frustrated trying to find an answer. For the last year, approximately, I have been collapsing during heavy workouts. It usually happens during sparring classes after I've sparred a few rounds, but it's happened during other kinds of classes as well. My legs just seem to give out under me. Usually a dose of gatorade or some other sugar revives me, and I'm back to sparring in 10 or 15 minutes. However, it concerns me that this is happening in the first place! I'm really in pretty good physical shape. I train TKD 3 or 4 times a week, do cardio workouts at least 3 times a week, and lift weights 3 times a week, too. All of this is supervised by a personal trainer. I find the same kind of thing happens after a tough cardio workout, too. I think I'm just experiencing a sugar low but I'm not positive. I've seen lots of doctors and had lots of tests, all of which have come back "normal" or "negative". I was very frustrated when my glucose tolerance test last week came back normal. That shows I'm not hypoglycemic as I suspected. They've checked me for heart conditions and all sorts of things... I'm now working with a dietician to see what I can improve in my diet. This is all very frustrating for me. I just want to be able to work out like everyone else! Is there anyone out there with similar experiences? Or anyone who can offer any advice? Thanks, Libby Wiebel - -- - ------- Libby Wiebel ewiebel@cs.wm.edu http://www.cs.wm.edu/~ewiebel ~Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes.~ - Maggie Kuhn ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 9:46:28 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #667 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.