From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #672 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 17 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 672 In this issue: the_dojang: Karate Music Further. the_dojang: Korean MA the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #670 the_dojang: Re: Collapsing during workouts the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries... the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries.... the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Debbie Eidelman Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Karate Music Further. Daniel (and all!): Thanks for your suggestions! This is what I have so far. I need about 5 more songs. It's varied, I love it! Hero Mariah Carey First Half of Women's Walk Blue Eiffel 65 Second Half of Women's Walk KungFu Fighting First Half Sept Black Belt Test Eye of the Tiger Rocky Second Half Sept Black Belt Test Gonna Fly Now Rocky Theme Tiny Tigers August Testing Spy (The Matrix) Propellerheads Junior Ninjas August Testing Mortal Kombat Theme Adults August Testing You're The Best Around The KarateKid Dec Black Belt Testing Everybody Dance Now Ninja Night I've Got The Power Nationals October Tiny Tiger Testing October Junior Ninja Testing Secret Agent Man October Adult Testing My Hands Jewel Halloween Party Groundfighting Seminar - --- Debbie Eidelman, MPH Student Department of Health Science Education University of Florida http://grove.ufl.edu/~eidelman eidelman@ufl.edu ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Lineman" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:22:51 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Korean MA >I agree with the statement made earlier that the Korean MA were alive and >doing well way before the advent of the Japanese infusion into the Korean >MA. All one has to do is look at the martial arts chronologically. The >Korean Silla dynasty which was home to the Hwarang Warriors was around >almost a full one thousand years before the invention of the Japanese >Samurai. Michael Tomlinson< Michael, The chicken or egg issue on the origination of MA, and the debatably important accolades supposedly thereby conferred, is IMHO a waste of time. It does not matter to me (a blonde haired, overfed, leaping gnome) if the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Indians, or Tibetans wish to claim the origination of MA. I do think that the statement (not made by you) that there were other Masters that are dis-serviced by attributing the origination of Hapkido to GM Choi needs to be defended or retracted. Patrick _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Lineman" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:12:21 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #670 Dear Bruce W. Sims, you wrote: >You may want to review the lineage for GM Sung Soo Lee who introduced >Hapkido to Australia. I understand that he started his training under his >grandfather who also trained in aiki-jujitsu in Japan. Both GM Lees' >grandfather and GM Choi were known to each other, ... there still is >historical evidence to support Korean martial tradition which pre-dates GM >Choi by quite some number of generations. GM Choi, himself identified his >art as "yu sool" and "yawara" and with the term 'hapkido" coming much later >and traditionally ascribed to GM Ji. ...< I did not take issue with your position on the origins of MA in general, or the origins of Korean MA. I take issue with your statement that other masters had been done a dis-service by the attribution of the origination of Hapkido to GM Choi. I thought you might wish to defend, refine, or retract that statement. Is it your position that GM Sung Soo Lee (or his grandfather) was a co-developer of Hapkido, and his contribution has been ignored, or was there some other specific Master (a Master at that time) you feel deserves co-founder status? Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "Daniel G." Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:16:30 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Collapsing during workouts Some things to consider: How much water do you drink each day & how long do you go without eating before a workout? ~Daniel >From: "Elizabeth (Libby) Wiebel" >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:42:37 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: the_dojang: Collapsing during workouts > >Hello all! I know that the most of us are not physicians, but I thought >I'd ask my question here anyway, as I'm getting very frustrated trying to >find an answer. > >For the last year, approximately, I have been collapsing during heavy >workouts. It usually happens during sparring classes after I've sparred a >few rounds, but it's happened during other kinds of classes as well. My >legs just seem to give out under me. Usually a dose of gatorade or some >other sugar revives me, and I'm back to sparring in 10 or 15 >minutes. However, it concerns me that this is happening in the first place! > >I'm really in pretty good physical shape. I train TKD 3 or 4 times a week, >do cardio workouts at least 3 times a week, and lift weights 3 times a >week, too. All of this is supervised by a personal trainer. I find the >same kind of thing happens after a tough cardio workout, too. I think I'm >just experiencing a sugar low but I'm not positive. > >I've seen lots of doctors and had lots of tests, all of which have come >back "normal" or "negative". I was very frustrated when my glucose >tolerance test last week came back normal. That shows I'm not hypoglycemic >as I suspected. They've checked me for heart conditions and all sorts of >things... I'm now working with a dietician to see what I can improve in my >diet. > >This is all very frustrating for me. I just want to be able to work out >like everyone else! Is there anyone out there with similar experiences? Or >anyone who can offer any advice? > >Thanks, >Libby Wiebel _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "Udell Holmes II" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:30:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries... John, I think you hit it on the head. I also think I have a partial tear of my achillies tendon. I had an MRI done today...won't know anything until Monday I guess. My first tournament...and it's been 17 days since I've been able to train...and it looks like it will be a while longer before I'll be able to get back in the dojang. Does anyone know how long (average) it takes to heal the tendon? It feels like the fascia has healed a great deal in the last 4 days...but now I'm noticing the achillies problem more because of the healing to the other injury. I'm a mess...and very frustrated. Can I still train with a partial tear? I think I already know the answer to that one... :( Thanks - ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:20:14 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Speaking of injuries... I'll preface this by stating that I'm not a doc, but I have a pretty good background in anatomy (pre-med in college). I can think of one thing that could have been going on with your leg, which is a rupture of the fascia in your lower leg. There actually is a kind of scary injury (your doctor must have felt that it wasn't the severe form of this - called compartment syndrome) where the sheath itself doesn't rupture, but you get internal bleeding within the "package". The structure of the fascia is kind of like canvas, lots of tough, cross-linked fibers, and it won't allow the swelling from the contusion to expand. In fact, it compresses nerves and major blood vessels, which in turn leads to more swelling, and pressure build-up, etc. People lose limbs over it. I think that crushing traumas and gunshot wounds are the primary contributors to that level of injury though. Maybe the fact that you apparently split the sheath prevented the pressure build up. From: "Udell Holmes II" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:28:59 -0400 Long story short, my doctor told me their is some sort of "package" that covers the muscles in the calf. Just like saran wrap when you buy meat at the grocey store. I must have ruptured the "saran wrap" from the compression of the blow (I was kicking REALLY hard) and had some internal bleeding (I had VERY slight swelling...but a whole lotta pain). Description: I knew it wasn't muscular from the type of pain I was having...All I had to do was lay down a certain way and I had the most excruciating SHARP pain..definately not musclular. - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: "Udell Holmes II" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:33:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries Todd, Thanks for the well wishes. You are correct that some injuries "feel" better with light excercise. My calf is already feeling better...It's my achillies tendon that is suspect now..possible partial tear. Oh joy. At least I have a gold medal to show for my efforts. i hope it's not my first, and last tournament. Thanks again, Udell - ------------------------------ From: "stryd" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:08:26 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re Speaking of injuries > Has anyone ever experienced an injury like this, and is my slow recovery > "normal", and should I be worried about long term effects?!?! The injury > happened on Sep 30th. I don't need crutches anymore, and it IS healing, but > I still cant "squat" without some pain. I've had something similar to this in the past, I hit a concrete curb after falling off my skateboard at speed. It probably wasn't as bad for me, as I never needed crutches, but I couldn't walk for a couple of days... I found that with this, the thing that worked most for me was gentle exercise... Something that works the calves especially, in my case it was riding a bike... Nothing fast or strenuous or painful, but enough that I knew I was working the muscle... Maybe this helps the bloodflow to the damaged area or something. Keep in mind however, that this wasn't doctor's advice and I don't really know anything about these things... I guess after skating for so long (10 years) I did gain some 'instinct' as to what worked best for me, but your injury sounds serious so I would check with a real doctor first :) I hope this helps Get well soon, Todd ------------------------------ From: "Udell Holmes II" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:41:17 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Speaking of injuries.... Drew, He had the same type of guards that I have (but didn't wear that day). They are the "cloth" kind with the hole in the foot portion to slide the smaller foot pad in and out. Comparatively speaking, I have pretty powerfull legs, and when I was attempting the swing kick, I was using %110 of my strength...not to injure him, but to let it be known that I didn't intend on loosing! :) Anyways, he stepped forward and raised his leg...and he was about 250-260..I'm 215...but his legs were considerably bigger than mine....nothing but bone on bone, save the pad. I'm sure he felt it the next day...and I'm sure it wouldn't have happened with my pads on. I don't go full speed in our sparring class, but I have been blocked that way before. I'm with you...I prefer to block using my arms, or if an opponent is pretty strong, I'm quick enough to evade most kicks. I don't think the calf is my main concern anymore..I posted previously that I may have a partial tear in my achillies tendon. Wn't know 'till Monday. Thanks, Udell - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Gassiot" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:49:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Anyone have an injury like this? >Long story short, my doctor told me their is some sort of "package" that >covers the muscles in the calf. Just like saran wrap when you buy meat at >the grocey store. I must have ruptured the "saran wrap" from the compression >of the blow (I was kicking REALLY hard) and had some internal bleeding (I >had VERY slight swelling...but a whole lotta pain). Udell, I have had a more severe form of this injury. I hurdled a fence retrieving a home run to find a piece of rebar on the other side, it glanced of my tibia (shinbone) and punctured my anterior dorsiflexor, not to mention the saran wrap. After it all "healed" it looked like a knot on a tire when I put a lot of weight on it. Doing squats would make it bleed internally sometimes, my foot would get a little yellow. Anyway, I ended up having it surgically fixed, the doc just roughed it up and sewed it back together. I'm good as new. I'm surprised that you actually injured this given that your opponent was wearing guards, were they the hard shell soccer type? We don't allow these, they have to be soft on both sides. I would think you will have a much better idea of the severity in a few weeks when all the bruises heal. If you end up with a small hernia, it's probably no big deal, mine was over an inch in diameter. I personally don't like shin guards, I like block with my elbows sometimes when someone is kicking hard. When they are wearing shin guards it doesn't hurt them, and I just get a jammed shoulder! DREW 1st Degree ATA - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:17:28 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #672 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.