From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #673 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 18 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 673 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Front Stance the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 the_dojang: Re: Don't Jump to Weight Distribution yet.... the_dojang: Re: Making My Point the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 the_dojang: hapkido the_dojang: RE: Collapsing during workouts the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:37:04 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Front Stance Dear Todd, Excellent observation!! I think you have just answered our question about the different front stances used by kicking oriented Martial Arts and Hand oriented Martial Arts. Thanks, S. H. Wee > From: "stryd" > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:08:16 +0800 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Front Stance > The first thing I notice is that turning the back foot to face forward seems > to put some very light tension along the back of the back leg... I really > like this 'tension', it makes my leg feel like it's just waiting to snap > out, but still relaxed. Maybe it's because I haven't been doing this long > and I'm not 100% flexible, but it feels good anyway. > > Also, I notice that turning the back foot inwards (forward) causes the hips > to rotate in that direction. This would seem to me to be more effective for > kicking, as the leg will rotate in the hip better when travelling straight > back and forth, than diagonally. > > I noticed while executing a front kick from the two front stances, that if > the back foot is diagonal, when I kick, the hip has to rotate (as above) > when I lift my knee in front of me. A side effect of this is that the > combined movement of my knee lifting and hips twisting, is that my knee > actually sticks out sideways as it curls around. I found that when I did the > kick at full speed (rather than slow-mo) I automatically compensated for > that shift of centre of gravity by 'leaning' back into the kick a little. > I'm guessing this could be both good and bad... It could mean more power > into the kick, but it also means that my balance could be a weak point for > an opponent to take advantage of, because I have leaned over, and the kick > has greater momentum. > Similarly, I found that the extra rotation seemed to make the kick take a > tiny bit longer, which makes sense because the hips and associated muscles > around your lower torso have to move more. The flipside of this is that it > means you could possibly use the strength of those muscles to add to the > power of the kick. > > However, if I have my back foot pointing straight forward, the hips do not > have to rotate (nearly as much) to face front when I kick, because they are > already facing the front. Due to the stuff I mentioned above, the kick seems > better balanced, faster, and perhaps a tiny bit less powerful. The overall > result to me would be that the kick feels somewhat more controlled with the > back foot facing front. > > As Tink observed, facing the back foot forward tends to place the shoulders > facing the front. It feels like this might be related to the hip rotation I > was speaking of. > I can see good and bad sides to this also. From an offensive perspective, > punching range on the back arm would be potentially increased because the > shoulder can rotate further forward read: closer to the opponent > Defensively, I can see a problem however. I was taught (and this will > undoubtedly vary from dojang to dojang, art to art) that in a front stance, > you should have your shoulders in a line pointing to the opponent (So in a > left stance, your left shoulder would be at the front, your right at the > back). This means that your opponent will see you side-on, which means a > smaller target than your whole chest. But every cloud has a silver lining :) > I noticed that, in a front stance with feet parallel, pulling my shoulders > into this line (from a facing forward position) 'coiled' the back arm ready > to strike, and also slightly increased the back leg 'tension' that I admired > at the beginning of this email. ahhhhh :) > > Once again, I find that either way, when the technique is done properly, it > feels 'right' or natural, and also happens to be quite practical... The > martial arts never cease to amaze me :) > > It's interesting, the Japanese/Korean roots of the stances, I haven't heard > that before... I study Hapkido, and I have learned that it has both Korean > and Japanese roots, maybe that is why we do both, or is that not unusual? (I > know very little about other martial arts) > > Wow, that was a much longer post than I intended :\ > Hope it helps > > Todd ------------------------------ From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:25:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 In a message dated 10/17/00 5:01:36 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Yo Thomas! Yeah baby! Feel it! Roll with it! But I thought all stances were based on front stance, since you turn your feet 45 degrees and you get horse stance, and turn one foot.... :-) Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: William Upton-Knittle Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:51:57 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Don't Jump to Weight Distribution yet.... At 06:18 PM 10/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: >commentary about the horse stance did not take into account the difference >in weight placement, which makes all the difference in the world to the >stances. If your weight placement doesn't change, you aren't doing the >stance right. If you don't have a difference in weight placement, AND >that is correct for your art, then you aren't doing any Korean art I've >ever seen. Again, you are jumping too far ahead. I'm not up to weight yet. That's the point....I'm still at the most basic level....the one that never gets repeated after maybe the first class or two. Here's an old practice: tie your belt (better yet some rope) exactly two of your hip widths around your ankles. Then start someform practice or movement techniques and see how often you find your feet wanting to go beyond (or not going far enough to) that length. This is an excellent way to measure how well you understand this most basic of practices. Weight distribution is another topic.....just deal with the foot placement.......you MAY be surprised. b ------------------------------ From: William Upton-Knittle Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:02:55 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Making My Point At 06:18 PM 10/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Does that mean you won't address his points? Spending the time you're >talking about on static stances is not done in HKD; we'd rather work on >footwork and dynamic use of the body. You are absolutely correct.....and that's the sad part of most MA teaching today. People are learning from people who learned from people who learned from people who were not taught the basics of static stances....that's why they can't use them to their full advantage in practice or contest. You are now beginning to agree with my assessment of the sad slippery slope teaching has slid down since the mid sixties. Today people are put in "dynamic" use of their body vs. another person before they have even learned to correctly stand and move. Sadly we agree. b ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:14:26 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 I've had a chance to begin reading the new book by Sensei Kondo on Daito-ryu Aiki-jujitsu and was pulled up short by a couple of comments in the Introduction. One was that OS Takeda advised him "never to teach the same technique twice". The text goes on to explain that to teach the same technique twice would allow the student an opportunity to formulate a "counter" to the technique and so defeat their teacher. Another rationale was that of "...1000 students, only teach the art to one or two..." I mention this to the readers in the hopes that some of you will recall stories in the Korean arts where teachers withheld information or disclosed information only very slowly due to suspicions or mistrust of their students. I have heard material in which teachers did not teach aspects of the art citing various reasons such as "I'll teach it when they are ready." Has anyone run into this issue in their own training? Has anyone found a successful way to address this in their training? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:21:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: hapkido Several weeks ago someone stated that they wished GM Pellegrini had not used the word Hapkido in naming his style Combat Hapkido. This has lingered on my mind since then. Would the person who made that statement please elaborate. Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: "Stovall, David C." Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:33:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Collapsing during workouts Libby wrote: ">I'm really in pretty good physical shape. I train TKD 3 or 4 times a week, >do cardio workouts at least 3 times a week, and lift weights 3 times a >week, too. All of this is supervised by a personal trainer." Have you considered the fact that you may be in a constant state of overtraining? I'm new to the list, so I don't know your particular motivation or necessity for this type of regimen. In my opinion, if your workouts are of a highly intense (I know that's subjective) nature then you may be training too much. Whether you're an athlete preparing for competition, or just a person seeking a higher level of physical well-being, if you're collapsing during training then it's obvious that you're not getting the results you're looking for. If it were me, I would take some time off, and then resume with a much lighter training schedule. Personally, I would stick with the TKD classes, and weight lifting but consider dropping the cardio classes. If you're TKD classes are not meeting your personal ideal of a "cardio workout" then you may want to consider finding another school which places more emphasis on cardio work within the TKD class structure. If your current TKD classes DO incorporate a sufficient amount of cardio stress then I question the reason you would be taking three cardio classes in addition to your regular cardio work within the TKD training environment. Again, I don't know your needs or motivation, but unless you're an athlete preparing for competition I question the need for what sounds like quite a Spartan schedule. If you ARE an athlete...then collapsing is obviously not the result you're looking for. If you're not getting the results you're looking for...consider changing your methods. Consider this...sometimes less is more. Dietary and hydration issues may also be a factor, as someone else rightfully pointed out. Hopefully, there are no neurological irregularities causing this phenomenon, but if the problem persists I would definitely consider that a possibility, and seek some medical guidance. However, I'm confident that if you simply change up your schedule a bit, and give your body the opportunity to get the rest that it needs this problem will go away. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 8:10:19 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #673 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.