From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #677 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 19 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 677 In this issue: the_dojang: Getin' Old/Stretching info the_dojang: Meaning of Blackbelt the_dojang: stretching and flexibility the_dojang: Dr. Kimm seminar the_dojang: RE: Stretching Info the_dojang: My First Board Breaking the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #672 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #675 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #673 the_dojang: Re: trouble with stretching results the_dojang: Re: Combat Hapkido the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #674 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #674 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mac" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:07:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Getin' Old/Stretching info From: David Reed <> Hey David, thanks for your input. Sorry I've been missing you at the seminars - work related stuff. I think you are right here, as I haven't been doing much exercise..... I'm getting that "hapkido tummy" :-) (I want to be just like Master Booth when I grow up!) ..... sorry, couldn't resist..... I do need to actively work on proper stretching and strengthening exercises, or I'm sure my back problem will only get worse with age. My kids are starting to get big enough to really be able to work out with, and I'm not ready to bow out just yet. Currently, I don't work out for myself, but enjoy teaching, working with and helping others. I should spend more time warming up class myself, instead of having my senior students do it as Dana suggested. At least that way, I'll get some workout in. Playing racquetball once or twice a week helps some, but not in the way I'd like. <> Good point. I believe my lower back is my weak point. <> Thanks David, and for the advice. Say hi to Mrs. Master Reed for me. I bet that little one is growing fast too! Take care, Mac TANG SOO! ------------------------------ From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:01:45 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Meaning of Blackbelt Greetings to all, I was visiting a friends dojang the other night, and while stretching, got to listen to a group conversation between gup ranks on what it means to be a blackbelt. The chief instructor was not involved, but had one of his 'leadership team', a 4th gup purple belt(I think) lead the discussion. He was the highest rank there. The talk was part of regular class. The tenets are a great topic of discussion, and the attributes that MA's give are too many to mention, but it seemed awfully strange for non-blackbelts to be having a planned discussion on what it means to BE a blackbelt since many of them will never make it to that level and/or have no idea what kind of dedication it entails. Most of the views given by the 'leader', were way off, but admittedly, the basic concepts were well intentioned. He was also reading off of a paper to guide the discussion. Instructors: How many of you have gup ranks lead discussions of which they do not have the rank or experience to moderate? How many of you have your schools broken up into various leadership or special teams? I have always been against theoretical, or philisophical discussions given by low ranks with little experience in the arts. I also disagree with the creation of special groups within a dojang as I believe it causes 'cliques'and the exclusion of those who cant afford to belong to special 'teams' (due to uniform costs, membership dues etc.) Not to say that having demo teams or assistant instructor teams is bad, just that managed incorrectly it can cause a lack of uniformity and cohesion within a dojang. This particular dojang has been steadily drifting towards the extreme commercial side of dojang management, and away from good ol' practice and has steadily been increasing the amount of memorized literature (preformed answers to questions) that have everyone answering exactly the same on subject that should be personal opinion. I think my friend has turned his school into a dreaded Mcdojang. What does everyone think? Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives ------------------------------ From: "mo :b" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:47:34 EDT Subject: the_dojang: stretching and flexibility Donnla i'm no expert, but here's my advice/thoughts... how long do you stretch for? the longer you stretch, the faster you will become more flexible. i used to stretch for an hour a day, everyday to become flexible enough to do splits. stretch AFTER a workout also. most people only stretch before hand to ward off injury, but you really need to do some stretching after working out. age. it seems the older you start a stretching program, the less success you will have, and the more you have to work at it. kids are naturally flexible, but we lose this as we age. warm up first. make sure your muscles are already warmed up. this makes the stretching more effective, and you're less likely to pull anything. repitition. repeat the same stretch over and over. move to another area and then go back. you should notice that the stretch is easier and you may be able to stretch farther. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: SunBiNim@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:12:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Dr. Kimm seminar Do Ju He-Young Kimm, founder of Han Mu Do, will be holding a seminar at his Baton Rouge, LA headquarters school on November 11 and 12th. There will be a rank test on Friday the 10th for those testing for dan rank. Dr. Kimm will be teaching Han Mu Do techniques and forms along with Chief Master Jamie Serio and Chief Master Kim Tate. GM Byung Tae Lim will be teaching Yudo, Professor Sergio Chavez will be teaching Taekwondo, and a good time will be had by all. In fact, it would be worth the trip just for the Cajun food in Baton Rouge! If you have any questions about this seminar, please feel free to contact me, sunbinim@aol.com. Thanks, Steve Kincade ------------------------------ From: "Stovall, David C." Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:45:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Stretching Info David Reed wrote in regards to stretching information: I can attest to the quality of Matt Furey's book titled 'Combat Conditioning'. Although a bit pricey at $30, it is chock full of great exercises that will greatly improve one's strength, stamina, and flexibility. In regards to the person experiencing some back problems...the bridging exercises in this book will probably be of particular interest. Not only do these simple exercises promote back flexibility, but also help to develop tremendous strength in the legs, abs, back, and neck. Furey also has a video tape set which covers the same material in the book to a greater depth (albeit for a higher price). Furey's coach, the legendary Karl Gotch, also has a conditioning video out right now that also covers many of the same exercises. These products, and others, can be purchased at www.mattfurey.com . The Combat Conditioning book itself is not the greatest in terms of photo quality, and one of my big gripes with Furey is the relatively high prices he charges for his materials. However, the exercise methods contained within the text more than make-up for the sub-par production values. I have been following bits of his program for some time now, and can attest that the Hindu Squats that he teaches will greatly improve one's leg strength as well as overall stamina. While I have yet to get into a habit of doing the bridging exercises on a consistent basis, I have seen MANY testimonials on several martial arts message boards by persons who have incorporated the bridging exercises into their personal routines. Several of these people have noted that their chronic back pain has been alleviated if not completely vanished, and all report more strength and flexibility in their backs. Personally, I am very happy with the results I have gotten so far. The only advice I would give is to approach the exercises with a degree of restraint (especially the Hindu Squats, and Bridging), as they can cause more harm than good for those that jump into them a little too zealously. BTW, I'm not a "shill" for Furey, and do not know him personally. As always...let the buyer beware. ------------------------------ From: bwoodard@mortonsalt.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:46:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: My First Board Breaking I broke 2 boards with a side kick today on my very first board breaking attempt!!!. It was awesome!!!! Almost like the board wasn't even there! I just had to tell somebody!! Brian Woodard TTA TKD 2nd Kub ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:30:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #671 Dear Folks: Reading the material on the development and use of stances I tend to support Mr Reeds contention that we can get tied up talking about the "map" instead of the "road". Still and all we Americans have a tradition of learning this way so perhaps its worth the discussion. However, one point that Mr. Reed made early in his contribution was that context is a heavy influence in this discussion. This has been echoed in a couple of ways by other contributors as well. The point that sticks in my mind as we talk about this was a comparison I did last night between pictures of OS Funakoshi and those of S Nishiyama. I noted that OS Funakoshis' forward stances were much shorter and S Nishiyamas' much longer. And this is within the same art and tradition and with two generations of the original teacher. Getting back to Korean arts I will share with you that GM Myung in teaching stances in the Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido forms formerly made little distinction in stances, allowing the students to generate bio-mechanics which best suited their individual body structure. It has only been in the last few years that the use of a standardized (shoulder-width) stance has been emphasized. One last point. In the Hwa Rang Kumdo I practice GM Koo repeatedly presses students to keep stances short, less than a foot-length between the heel of the lead foot and the tow of the trailing foot. In reviewing Hai Dong Kumdo tapes I have noted that the stances are much longer for beginning material and appear to be very short in the higher forms. Perhaps then the length of the stance is less a matter of accuracy than as an indicator of ones' point in their training? Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:52:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #672 Dear Mr. Lineman: On another Net in which I participate, even as I write this, there is, of all things, a religious discussion going on. One aspect of that discussion concerns the relationship of Jesus to the Deity. This is one of those issues which remains a mainstay both of religious discussion and feverish debate for generations. I mention this because this is not my first time either raising this position or participating in its discussion and I have a pretty good idea where this will go even as I share these words. Judging by your response you are thoroughly comfortable assigning the origins of the Korean Martial tradition that has come to be called "hapkido" to GM Choi. Fine, there is nothing wrong with this. Just know that there are more than a few holes in this logic. If you elect to accept the material put out by various sources to support this position who am I to rock your boat? On the other hand, as a scholar and teacher I am required to have a bit more hard evidence than "'cause GM Wxyz said so." Perhaps you are caught on the use of the term "hapkido", or perhaps you have an affiliation that has come to mean much to you. I don't know. What I do know is that I, this particular Hapkido practitioner, is getting a bit too old to casually align myself behind anecdotal material. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:34:03 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #675 I have no experience with traditional hapkido, but I have trained with GMP on several occasions and found his ability to manipulate his opponent quite impressive. Gary Pieratt ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:44:03 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #673 Dear Gary: I hope you don't mind my using your first name, but it gets a bit stuffy after a bit, yes? I am not sure about the remark that you are referencing but the issue you raise has been a stone in my shoe since Pelligrini left the World Hapkido Federation. I have attended his seminars and to his credit he prefaces each seminar with the disclaimer that he "does not teach Hapkido". This does not keep him from trading on name association in his literature and advertising, however, nor does it preclude him from absorbing other organizers of their own brands of Hapkido under his banner. It is part of the price a.) of knowing only the technical side of Hapkido and not having absorbed the ethic and b.) it is the price of making any MA a commercial concern. In my experience and IMHO I think Pelligrini is wrong in both his approach and his intent. I believe that to pretend that MA, let alone Hapkido, is or can be made into something for everyone misrepresents the art and insults the intelligence of the students. I have also met a number of instructors associated with the ICH and for the most part they are good-hearted people with an excessively simplistic view of what they are trying to do. Hapkido, is hard work both for the body and the mind, the heart and the spirit. Paring the art down to make the trip easier or more salable is possible, I suppose, but so is cutting the doors off a Cadillac. Whats' the point? If you don't want to learn the art of Hapkido, then select another art, or take a self-defense class, learn to play racquetball. All I ask is that you don't water Hapkido down, mass-market Hapkido, use Hapkido to build a commercial concern around and then pretend its anything like the original item by using its name. Not that I have any issues about any of this, Gary. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:55:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: trouble with stretching results In a message dated 10/19/00 7:30:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > From: Donnla Nic Gearailt > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:59:40 +0100 > Subject: the_dojang: flexibility... > > Here's yet another question about flexibility. I've been training in tkd > for > just over a year now. That combined with gym workouts mean I do a full > warmed-up stretching session around 5 times a week. However, my flexibility > has only improved a tiny amount. > > I hold each stretch for the requisite 15-20 seconds. I also practice > breathing > out while holding the stretch, relaxing the muscle and pushing the stretch > that extra bit like in yoga. > > But so far, no real results. Am I doing something wrong? I have been > following > the guidelines in a book on stretching I bought by a guy called Bob > Anderson. > He recommends gentle stretches holding the stretch for a reasonably long > time > (20 second min). > > Donnla. hi donnla, this is just a simple thing, but it makes a big difference if youre not doing it. a lot of people arch their backs while stretching, instead of pressing their stomach and chest into the stretch. if youre arching, it can cause back problems in the long run. if youre pressing your stomach and chest down into the stretches, there's less pull in your back and more pull in your legs where you want them. of course, i'm assuming we're talking about leg flexibility :). hope this helps :) melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.chajonshim.com ------------------------------ From: MJD99AB@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:47:41 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Combat Hapkido In a message dated 10/19/00 11:32:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << At the first seminar I attended, I was talking to Master P on the break and he told me flat out that he could promote me to 4th dan all I had to do was send him my certification fees. >> I dont have a problem with someone investigating the system the way you did and having that opinion. What rank are you in traditional HKD? Is it possible that after 16 yrs of training that you actually are at 4th dan level? I also study Gracie Juijitsu and at higher ranks..they dont test. They just walk up to you on the mat and hand you a belt. As long as you deserve it....then I dont have a problem with it. Maybe GM P watched you and felt that you deserve that rank. Im not trying to start an argument...for the most part I dont really care what anyone thinks...but I feel there is alot of bashing of people in martial arts and my personal feeling is...if you dont like his system..dont train in it. Mark Daley Combat Hapkido/Gracie Jiujitsu ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:52:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #674 "All of which raises questions. Many people have studied several arts to Dan degrees, merged this & that, changed some things, come up with a name, appointed themselves founders and 10th Dan and been successful. Well, maybe not 'many' people, but some. Which is fine, he can do his thing; but using HKD in the name means that what he does reflects on the overall reputation of HKD. And there's already too much of HKD being thrown under a TKD banner and being seen as just the joint locks or an adjunct to another martial art. It is a complete martial art and should be learned and taught that way." To which, Mr. Beck I would like to add a resounding, "me, too." I came to Hapkido relatively later in my MA career after accruing quite a bit of experience in Karate and TKD. Maybe it was my mindset at the time but the blatant commercialism, misrepresentation and exploitation didn't seem to hit me as hard for those arts. These last 15 years I have dedicated to Hapkido has brought out a very protective aspect in me to the point that passing a TKD school which has "hapkido" on its sign in small letters sets my teeth on edge. I have gone as far as to stop and inquire after their curriculum. Both Korean and US nationals have informed me on various occasions that "its TKD and Judo put together", its "Korean Aikido", or "we took the best from........ and that's all that Hapkido is anyhow-a mix of different arts." Most schools do not even teach the weapons or have substituted weapons of their own choosing (ie. Nunchukus; escrima). Of the traditional Hapkido weapons that ARE taught on occasion the most common are the short stick and the cane. I have, occasionally seen sword work but it is most commonly something the instructor has made up or is a Kendo curriculum borrowed from our Japanese MA cousins. I have yet to locate a Hapkido master who continues the knife tradition although I have spoken with a number of Korean practitioners who report that this aspect of Hapkido is still found in Korean traditional schools. Most of what I have seen in the US, when I have seen it, is Kumdo short sword material that has been modified. One last point and this directed squarely at the Hapkido leadership. I honestly believe that their silence as well as the support of such people as Pelligrini continue to provide for the decline in Hapkido and Mudo over all. I believe that GM Seo might have compelled Pelligrini to contribute more to the integrity of the art. Instead, what I saw was a tacit support for Pelligrini exploiting Hapkido for what could be taken from it. At last count I have identified 7 major organizations world-wide which could, should they choose,make their influence felt with such organizations as the ICH. That they choose not to is an embarrassment to MA and a shame to the Korean peoples' gifts to the world. Thanks for your comments, Dave. Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Sims, Bruce W. NCHVAMC" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:13:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #674 Dear Mac: It's a bitch, ain't it? I go over the big 5-0 this year and getting out on the mat and tossing kids half my age around is not something I do without a bit of preparation and management that was not necessary when I was 20 years lighter. However, I teach every class, every week, and that's through participation and not through direction. I'll give you some tips that I have found helpful, but I need to remind you that these are things I have put together based on observing MY performance over the years so they may or may not work for you. Diet--- Drop the 3 C-s - No Cola, Coffee or Chocolate. Of the three the cola (actually any soda with potassium salts) is the worst. You need calcium and water soluble vitamins and cola, and to a lesser degree, coffee is not your friend. Chocolate is actually a benfit but it gets ruled out because most people don't eat the quality stuff, and the cheap shit is full of parafin and chemicals. Take a vitamin supplement w/ minerals daily and supplement by alternating with a potassium one day and a calcium the next. Stay up on protein, and reduce sugar. Carbs will give you a flash of energy, but it is not sustained. Chances are good that you will begin to flag halfway through your workout and try to tough it out to the end. That's a recipe for disaster. Cut you alcohol to no more than 2 oz (2 drinks, or 2 beers) a day. Its that water-soluble vitamins thing again. Range of motion. Stretch-every day. It does not have to a major stretching routine but it needs to be all the major muscle groups and it needs to be regular. I have always been amazed at how quickly I lose my range when this is not attended to. Along those same lines continue to work-out on a regular basis. Again it does not have to be a real gut-buster workout, but it needs to push you and it needs to be regular. One last thing. If you need the pain-relief take only the minimum and don't take it before a work-out. Supplement with relaxation and imagery to encourage the body to use more of its endorphins for pain relief than the chemicals. As I say, this is material that I have found that works for me. I plan on getting out on the mat and bouncing youngsters on their butts for a few years to come, but it will take some management. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:21:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #677 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.