From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #679 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 21 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 679 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: basic...instinct the_dojang: Combat Hapkido the_dojang: GM Choi the_dojang: Re: Stance Not Traditional Teaching the_dojang: Re: Back it up the_dojang: thank you all and question re treadmill in gym the_dojang: basic names the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1250 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:25:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: basic...instinct In a message dated 10/19/00 7:03:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > In reviewing Hai Dong Kumdo > tapes I have noted that the stances are much longer for beginning material > and appear to be very short in the higher forms. Perhaps then the length of > the stance is less a matter of accuracy than as an indicator of ones' point > in their training? > > i think this is true. not just in stances but in other techniques as well. the correct stance will come naturally after guidance on basics of the stance. take, for example, the kihap. we teach beginners to say "USSSSSSSS!" as their kihap. the extended "s", we believe, allows them to continue the breath instead of choking it off prematurely. i was asked a few nights ago why i dont kihap thusly. i said that one day, a natural noise came out as my kihap, instead of the "USSSSSS!" which everyone is taught as a guppie. same as everything else, at some point it just "clicks". every twist, turn, pull, and push becomes a natural stance, extension or expression, without having to focus on the "basic". suddenly, it just "is". i hope i'm maintaining some clarity in my ramblings here :). the techniques are no longer a basic technique to be learned, but a natural movement as much as breathing or blinking. with the stance discussion, it begins as a basic to be learned: where to put the feet. then taking into consideration the student's physical dimensions, adjustments are made. then repetition, repetition, repetition to the nth....and finally a natural, comfortable, almost instinctual performance of the skill. this is not to say that we should refrain from revisiting our basics. imho, it is necessary to "check" ourselves, making sure that "natural" technique has not degraded into something too comfortable. take for instance, gima seogi or joochum seogi (please accept the variations on acceptable romanizations :). innumerable times i have seen "experienced" martial artists performing a horse stance at the beginning of a training session, deep in stance, poised appropriately and full of concentration and effort. after five minutes passage, they are practically in a standing position, with no bend in the knee, no concentration on their technique/form and punching with the strength of my 1.5 year old nephew. they have either not been taught the basics correctly in regard to stance, or perhaps in that of focus and concentration. it reminds me of the psychological ideology that one cannot pass into another epoch or psychological stage without completing the preceding stage. in regard to basics, one cannot reach that stage of repetition of basics or that of instinctual performance without first making it through the basic stage itself. so, to echo another on this list: basics, basics, basics....lol :) melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.chajonshim.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Lineman" Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:34:52 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Combat Hapkido I have studied "traditional Hapkido" for several years with 2 different Korean 8th dans and I have been a member of the ICHF for 5 yrs. Im not about to argue with you, because your mind is made up, but I would like to suggest to people from all arts that before coming to these "conclusions" and offering opinions to others, at least get some first hand knowledge about what you are talking about. Mark Daley Combat Hapkido/Gracie Jiujitsu Mark, Why do you attack the man (Mr. Beck), rather than his argument? If I am not mistaken, you begged the question about opinion on Pelligrini. Do you disagree that Mr. Pelligrini usurped the name Hapkido without paying his due to the art? How do you think the Gracies's would feel if you started advertising Combat Gracie Juijitsu, after a few years of practice? Along with Mark, I too think it is unfortunate that Mr. Pelligrini decided to usurp the name of Hapkido. I would think the action incorrect if he had chosen Jiujitsu, Sambo, Wrestling or any other art he was not a Master in. Do you not find it annoying that the Art's name he chose to usurp was not his own? The story offered by Scott (the alleged selling of certification) is further rational why he may be doing harm to the name Hapkido, which was the thrust of Mr. Beck's comment. I will not comment on Mr. Pelligrini's person having not met him. However, since his concoction is heavily advertised, public comment at even less than intimate levels of knowledge is IMHO justified. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Lineman" Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:55:25 PDT Subject: the_dojang: GM Choi Mr. Sims, Let me start with a compliment on your comments regarding Mr. Pelligrini. Re: our little tete-a-tete, I hope my position will surprise you. You think my comments are based upon my BELIEF about the origins of Hapkido. As a scholar and teacher, how do you discard my position as belief, when it is based upon virtually the same knowledge you drew your "dis-service" comment from? Your "knowledge" of of the origins of present day Hapkido, so far shared, does not appear significantly different from mine. I never asked about precursors, simultaneous evolutions, enclusions, or derivatives of Hapkido. I only asked, but will no longer ask, "who is dis-serviced" You asked who you are to rock my boat? You are my brother, (senior or junior I don't know) However, it is not MY boat you rock. I have asked, but will no longer ask, "why are you rocking OUR boat". Brother, I am not asking you to align yourself behind anecdotal information, I am asking you to avoid treating Hapkido as our grand fathers and fathers did. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: William Upton-Knittle Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:58:35 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Stance Not Traditional Teaching At 06:18 PM 10/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: >This is only true in styles where the instructor actively feels the need >to teach such verbiage around the techniques and is not a traditional >method nor is it the "basics" any more than a map is the road Yep....here's another person who apparently was taught by someone who himself never was taught the basics........back to the 60s. b ------------------------------ From: William Upton-Knittle Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:35:55 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Back it up At 10:45 PM 10/18/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Again, 'b' refuses to respond to any of Thomas's points, David Reed's points, >or my points, doesn't back up any of his pronouncements, and sticks in a slam >at modern martial arts. A sophisticated troll, perhaps, but a troll. >I'm getting tired of feeding him... You can namecall all you want....or you can put the rope on your ankles and see whether or not you REALLY know even the most basic of basic martial arts training. Go ahead....tie a rope exactly two hips width in length....then go through some training. You'll see real quickly your body has not learned second nature to maintain the single most basic and important part of your art. You say I don't back up what I say....have someone who has no axe to grind watch you and see how backed up I am.....or not..... And any instructor who says this is NOT the basics of martial arts simply doesn't deserve the title......go ahead and test yourself.........or not (because we all know what will happen). You would have your belt taken away in the old days if you couldn't demonstrate this level of knowledge and control. b ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:21:24 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: thank you all and question re treadmill in gym Many thanks to everyone who replied to my queries about stretching. Your replies were very helpful and I am adjusting my stretching regime accordingly (as well as putting in an order for Kurz's book as soon as I get some spare $ ). One more question - a friend of mine maintains that running on the treadmill in the gym isn't real running, she says it's like running on the spot, because you don't push off. However, it seems to me that you DO push off, because your leg ends up behind you quite quickly. Which of us is right? I use the treadmill because the weather isn't great here at the moment, the running track is a long way out of town and it doesn't have any lights. Donnla. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 7:57:12 PDT Subject: the_dojang: basic names Folks, Time to let the 'basics' and 'everything taught after the 1960s sucks' thread go. I suspect we'll never get a straight response from 'b', especially given his various nom de plumes. Over the years he as openly been Bill Knittle, William Upton-Knittle, An Tsu, An Tzu, and b. And while apparently at Black Belt magazine in the 60s he used yet a different name. So, who are we really talking to? :) Just let it go... Always been, Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 7:59:42 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #679 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.